Where's Donald Rumsfeld when you need him? Once upon a time, the irrepressible former Defense Secretary insured his enshrinement in Barclay's Familiar Quotations with the line:

There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know."

It was hilariously convoluted. As it happens, it also made some sense if you parsed it. Which puts it leagues ahead of the clarification offered by the White House's Ben Rhodes today concerning what America's policy in Libya actually is. In short, what he said was: "I know we said we were for regime change but we're actually not for it except of course for the fact that it is our primary objective." 

But let me let him say it for you because the painful, verbose, circular logorrhea of it all really needs to be experienced to be understood.

Given the fact that there has been some reporting off of a quote from the gaggle, the quote that says 'they underscored their shared commitment of helping provide the people of Libya the opportunity to transform their country by installing a system of government that is democratic and responsive to the will of the people,' we're clarifying, as we've said repeatedly, that the effort of our military operation is not regime change, that as we actually say in this READOUT, it's the Libyan people who are going to make their determinations about the future. We support their aspirations, their democratic aspirations, and have stated that Gaddafi should go because he's lost their confidence.

So, let's go to the chalk board and break that down, shall we? What had been said was that the administration was seeking to help the people of Libya "transform their country" by installing a new system of government. Now, Rhodes was explaining that the "effort" of the intervention ... by which he presumably meant the goal of the effort ... was definitely not regime change. That's not something we would do. In fact, noted Rhodes, we've been saying it over and over again. No, really, seriously, we would never support regime change. But just so we all would understand better, he went on to "clarify" that our effort is instead to support them in realizing their democratic objectives. The core objective of which is to replace the country's government. Which is why we have repeatedly stated that Qaddafi has got to go.

Oh, now I see. Regime change is not our goal. We are just intervening with the collective firepower of NATO in order to help the Libyans get rid of Qaddafi. Who really has to go. That's much clearer. Thank you very much. 

Pete Souza/The White House via Getty Images

 

JOHNBRAGG

5:44 PM ET

March 23, 2011

Rumsfeld's quote wasn't convoluted.

IT was practically powerpoint in its simple syntax.

* There are known knowns.
--- These are things we know that we know.

* There are known unknowns.
---That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know.

But there are also
* unknown unknowns.
---There are things we don't know we don't know.

There's plenty to criticize about Rumsfeld, but this isn't it. In fact, if this had been made into a poster on his door, things might have been better--it was the unknown unknowns that got us.

 

ZATHRAS

4:43 PM ET

March 24, 2011

They're getting us now, too

The Obama administration doesn't know that it doesn't know what its objectives in Libya are today.

Maybe it will resolve the unknown unknowns by falling back on something we all know, like George H.W. Bush's approach to the crushing of the rebellion against Saddam Hussein in 1991. President Obama could call on the Libyan people to "... take matters into their hands to force Muammar Qadhafi the dictator to step aside." Not only could he avoid having to come up with original material for his speeches on Libya (assuming he ever makes one), but he could draw reassurance from the fact that the Bush I team still thinks the earlier episode was a great success. The rebels were slaughtered, the United States found itself committed to protect the ones who were left for more than a decade, but our allies were happy and the UN resolution scrupulously adhered to. Why wouldn't we want to do that again?

 

COFFIE

7:08 PM ET

March 23, 2011

It makes sense: think president-vs-presidency.

It makes sense to have a clear-cut black-and-white policy. Sometimes, it also makes sense to explain things in a more convoluted fashion - like WH did in this particular statement.

Nobody is after "regime change" by simply throwing out the person Gaddafi - but everyone, and I mean everyone wants a more representative government. This includes the set of people around him and the machinery of lies that he is supported by. It is the machinery of lies that has to be changed. With it gone, gaddafi is gone. It is not that the person to lead Libya is chosen by anyone, which is one version of a regime change that people could have in mind. That is not of particular interest. Nobody is going to say what institutions have to exist in Libya or who'd lead it next.

Thus, a regime change of the person cannot be sponsored and is not supported by anyone. Not even the States. But repression of the regime of lies has to be stopped. A transition to more representative, regime-change-ish-thing, for the lack of a better word, has to occur. In which, Gaddafi cannot persevere, but he'd better be sent to ICC and stopped under r2p.

There are more than one regime change you can talk about. The current policy seems in line to get rid of the power structure on which his power is based on; not the regime change where only the specific person is picked.

PS. "regime-change-ish-thing, for the lack of a better word. " I think the word is called spreading democracy.

 

ITONLYSTANDSTOREASON

8:00 PM ET

March 23, 2011

How is this guy a professor?

There is the policy of supporting a nation's efforts to achieve self-determination, the democratic control of the government and the state. This is of course idealist, a goal driven by our values.

Then there is the realist side of the administration - focusing on our national interests and the alliances necessary to promote them.

Last year Obama ordered a study of the potentials for political unrest in the Muslim-Arab world. Change is going to come; our interest is maintaining important alliances across regime change driven from within by siding with the efforts of the people to achieve self-determination - in the long run, realist and idealist policies align. In the short run, we've a very narrow path to travel to avoid damage to alliances with current regimes even as we reach out to potential successors. A guiding principle is that we will not intervene with our military to achieve regime change. This would undercut the goal of self-determination and drive away current allies.

How this plays out in any country is subject to many contingencies. In Libya, the principle of non-intervention was over-ridden by the moral necessity of preventing a massacre of civilians.

So the military intervention is directed at protecting civilians, not at overthrowing Qaddafi. Though we want to see Qaddafi go, we will not use our military to force him out.

That of course leaves many gray areas. We will obviously target tanks that are engaged in shelling civilian neighborhoods, hospitals, etc. However, would attacking Qaddafi's forces on their bases or in their barracks cross the line? South of Benghazi, we haven't attacked the armor blockading the highway into another town; these forces blocked a rebel advance yesterday.

A scholar's job is to identify the fine distinctions and ambiguities and examine them with care and insight, to achieve a deeper understanding.

Rothkopf by his own testimony fails to see the distinctions. Perhaps he is overlooking them on purpose for rhetorical purposes.

Who places rhetorical pot-stirring above understanding and education? Demagogues and snake-oil salesmen or politicians acting in those roles. Rothkopf has been hammering on this theme for several days now. His bias is clear.

I hope he demonstrates more acuity and less bias in his teaching and research.

 

WILMORE

7:11 PM ET

March 24, 2011

Right on Mark

To further extend ITONLYSTANDSTOREASON's correction/analysis, regime change as per the criticism of the Bush era policy would be to go into a country without a popular and active opposition movement. As such, the current policy reflects support of internal regime change, not a policy of regime change in and of itself.

 

KIESELGUHR KID

8:29 PM ET

March 23, 2011

Who are we supporting now?

I think the most bizarre bit is when they try to pin down Donilon on who is, and who isn't, a civilian...

 

MARKUSLONG

5:08 PM ET

March 24, 2011

So we pick Libya to help?

Yes, Gadhafi is a creep. So are the government leaders of Yemen, Syria, Jordon, Egypt, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, Tunisia, Algeria, Djibouti, Morocco, Oman, Kuwait, Sudan, Somalia, Ivory Coast and Palestinian territories. That’s just the Middle East.... Let’s not forget the atrocities in the rest of Africa, the Far East, and Latin America. I guess being an OPEC nation moves you to the top of the list for getting help during civil unrest. Plus having 85% of your oil exports going to America and her allies helps, too. The whole thing is quite disappointing in my eyes. The Arab world is in full speed for change. Will good things beget from this? Or will America have more enemies from blowback? Signs of the times.

 

SHAKIR

6:36 PM ET

March 24, 2011

Hawks are getting itchy to commandeer the mid east revolution.

The facts are bare. it does not need any philosophization.
just read on any search engine by typing the following words to understand in plain english as to what direction are we headed.

"Hawks are getting itchy to cammandeer the mid east revolution by shakir mumtaz"

And

" IsGhaddafi Next after Saddam Hussain by shakir mumtaz"
read and comment on ruqaya@bellsouth.net

 

David Rothkopf is the CEO and Editor-at-Large of Foreign Policy. His new book, "Power, Inc.: The Epic Rivalry Between Big Business and Government and the Reckoning that Lies Ahead" is due out from Farrar, Straus & Giroux on March 1.

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