Monday, February 1, 2010 - 10:13 PM

In the past few days, the Obama team has alienated Republicans by showing them to be the empty poseurs that they are, the EU by deciding not to attend their summit later this year, and the green community by apparently backing away from including cap-and-trade revenues in the upcoming budget and thus sending a message that they're no longer expecting them.
But of all the alienating that has taken place in the past week, the most meaningful has to do with the president's decision to send $6.4 billion in arms to Taiwan and the resulting, inevitable Chinese pique at the U.S. action. According to the foreign ministry, the step "constitutes a gross intervention into China's internal affairs." They're "extremely indignant."
Frankly, following the administration's unsteady performance with China during its first year in office, this willingness to stand up to the Chinese is welcome. On the President's China trip and throughout last year, the Obama team seemed altogether too passive in accepting criticisms from a Chinese government that lives in a Forbidden City full of glass houses. They may be gaining strength but clearly their economic policies are compromised by corruption, a weak banking system, a real estate bubble, and the manipulation of their currency. Their businesses and their people are hampered by their efforts at censorship and their continuing readiness to employ authoritarian tactics. Their foreign policy consists of a willingness to engage when it is in their interest but not to play any kind of real leadership role on global issues where their intervention could be key -- from Iranian nukes to combating climate change.
They are an important partner to the United States on many issues but they are one that is deeply flawed and unsure of themselves. They know they are changing. They know they need to change. But they are unsure how rapidly they can go or in what direction those changes may take them.
China will not be influenced by carrots or kindness alone. Indeed, cozying up to the Chinese leadership will be ineffective with a hard-nosed government motivated by a laser-like focus on national self-interest. For example, they will complain about America's arms sale to Taiwan or our recent criticism of their Internet policies, but they won't let it derail the relationship. Because their growth and national stability depends on us even more than we depend on them for the capital to finance our debt -- although we ought to focus more on the symbiosis that is required by circumstance and less on who has the edge.
All this is to commend the Obama administration for its resolute stance with regard to the Chinese these past few weeks. Having said that, I'm concerned that we are likely to fall victim to several traps.
Beating up on the Chinese is as popular with the Democratic base as beating up on Arabs is to Republicans or beating up on Mexicans is to border-state populists and the thankfully now relatively silent and almost forgotten Lou Dobbs. The problem is, letting the domestic politics of having a whipping boy drive foreign policy is dangerous and on some key issues, like trade, the temptation is likely to be so great that it stands as the single biggest threat to President Obama's surprising State of the Union goal of doubling U.S. exports and strengthening the international trading system. It is a treacherously tempting (and I would say rather likely) first step on a protectionist slippery slope that would make the half pipe at the recently concluded X-Games look slow and shallow.
Another problem is that we need to avoid demagoguing the issue of Taiwan. While many in the U.S. feel that Taiwan, as a democracy, deserves our unquestioning support and that the island nation affords us an "aircraft carrier" just off the Chinese coast, it is not clear to me that this particular issue should be allowed to play as big a role as it has in the past in coloring the U.S.-China relationship.
Taiwan is small. It offers us very little in the way of true strategic advantages (in the final analysis, it really is China's for the taking ... and it is certainly not worth going to war for regardless of what U.S. rhetoric has been for decades). Further, our policy does not really bear too much scrutiny. Imagine, for a moment, if the Chinese were to make a $6.4 billion arms sale to Cuba as part of a program to provide them with a strategic foothold just off our shores. We've been down that road before. We know how the U.S. would react. While I believe that there is a certain place in foreign policy for a modicum of well-thought-out hypocrisy (a fairly prominent place, usually), we have to realize that this issue is a potential distraction from much bigger questions.
It is one of those issues for the Taiwanese and the Chinese to work out among themselves. Just as are the issues between China and Tibet. Just as are countless other border issues of nothing more than regional significance ... unless we continue to choose, in our desire to aggrandize our role on the planet in Yertle the Turtle fashion to involving all issues we survey. Should we support democracy everywhere? Yes. Are we willing to go to war everywhere to defend it? No. Should we support international efforts to preserve the rights of minorities and small states against bullying neighbors? Yes. Is it up to the U.S. to be the last bulwark of defense for all those states (especially the ones that have movie stars or highly-financed lobbies behind them)? No.
We are entering The Era of Limits for the United States. We can only actively get involved in those few places where our vital strategic interests are involved and where involvement will actually advance those interests. That should mean a spring cleaning of the attic of U.S. foreign policy and an effort to identify vestigial positions we can no longer afford to support. This will mean some wrenching decisions ... and in some cases, it's probably just as well we keep our changed policies to ourselves. But we don't have the balance sheet we once had. Economic trends are not in our favor on that front. And so we have to accept that we simply can't afford to be the country we once were ... or over-reaching will prove to be the ultimate threat to our security.
Deterring China from adventurism into Taiwan is a necessity. If Taiwan is incapable of doing so then the United States will be forced into a position of unwanted action. If action is not taken, the legitimacy of our fundamental principles will be doubted, and our capacity for leadership will be farcical.
Military and economic strength represent real power, however, democratic values, individual freedoms, and open society represent legitimacy. Washington needs to return to these core values as mechanism of our credibility.
"It is a quarrel between two far away peoples, about which we know nothing."
Yes, it is always the 'realists' who kowtow to totalitarianism. There is a deference between a 'realist' and someone who is perfectly happy to condemn another democracy to a foreign regime, provided that foreign regime promises to leave us alone.
Look, I don't want to waste too much space examining how stupid and ahistorical this article is. We could get into the history of Taiwan, and the fact that abandoning Taiwan would only show China and the World that agreesion pays off. Let me just leave it at this"
-- Taiwan has been de facto independent for over sixty years.
-- It has a first world standard of living and justice system, neither of which is possesed by the PRC.
-- China has, in any case, only a tenuous claim to Taiwain. but most importantly,
-- Taiwan is a democracy of more than 20 million people.
Let's speculate that in the not too distance future, a growing and powerful China decides that in order to control its own natural resources (a la 1930's Japan) that it needs to Annex Australia. Are you really suggesting that we should just acquiese? Is that your 'realistic approach'? Australia, like Taiwan, is a democracy with 20 million people. On the other hand, if you would support Australia, and not Taiwan, there can be only one reason, racism, perhaps tempered by a cowardice along the lines of "well, Australia (like Poland?) is more defensible. In any case we have to draw a line somewhere."
My choice of Neville Chamberlain -- the cowardly and dimwitted PM who led Europe into WWII by not standing up to Hitler -- is not an inapt analogy for you. If the US won't stand up for Taiwan, it doesn't stand for anything.
First of all, I would like you to explain how "Free Trade" is any more simplistic than "Sam from California."
Once that is settled...you state, "First, the CCP does not operate on the same kind of imperial logic as the Nazis or Japanese" and "It justifies its desire for Taiwan by saying that Taiwan was originally part of China." I never even implied this was a perfect analogy, since it doesn't really matter why an agressive attacks a weaker nation in order to annex its territory, suffice it to say that the Germans felt that they deserved "German" populated territories to be part of Greater Germany, while the Japanese needed natural resources. Actually, and again, I never even took it this far as an analogy, both these factors are present in the current PRC/Taiwan standoff.
You conclude with an eloquent defense of Neville Chamberlain that leaves me a bit worried. If more people feel like you do -- that standing up for a democratic, prosperous, and independent people just isn't "worth it", then yes, the US really is headed toward the dustbin of history
There are so many ways to point out that you don't know what you are talking about.
Chinese claim to Taiwan being questionable. Who cares if the KMT also claimed Taiwan? Taiwan was assigned back to China after WWII, even though Mao didn't claim it, at this insistence of the US. So, since you seem to be blaming the US for everything, blame it for that. The Taiwanese (ie., the 90% of Taiwan residents who did not come over with Chiang) didn't really want the KMT there either.
Hong Kong is a nice place, but if you knew what you were talking about you would be aware that it is currently undergoing a constitutional crisis, and everyone who can has two passports. Besides -- HK never had democracy in the first place.
US being hypocritcal about democracy -- your facts are shallow and conclusions wrong, but who gives a damn whether the US is sometimes hypocritical? What has that got to do with anything? By the way, I am pretty sure the US would welcome Hamas if it would agree to end its endless war against the civilians of Israel -- but never mind, that's got nothing to do with Taiwan.
Australia -- its not a big leap to China claiming (as it has) that the ore of Australia is in its national interest. The parrellel there is really Japan's surge south for natural resources, which (along with its agression against China) triggered WWII in Asia.
By the way, I am not in the least anti-Chinese. I live in China. My wife is Chinese. By grow up and get clue.
I can't help but laugh at that -- Oh yeah, WWII was fought to prevent Germany from conquering Russia and becoming the strongest power in Europe. Well, that is certainly news to the Poles, who were conquered by the USSR in connivance with Germany, and with Britian, who fought Germany alone for over two years while the USSR supplied Germany with war materials. You don't have to be an expert to know this stuff, just somewhat literate.
You are obviously a psychopath...
with an axe to grind. I'm sorry that the Western powers didn't also attack Russia and make you happy as well, but that's life. But weren't you previously complaining about my "Cold War Cant"? --- notwithstanding that the PRC and the US have been effectively allies for the past 40 years -- and then you complain that the US and Britian didn't start WWIII by attacking the USSR. You can't have it both ways, buddy. I like how you try to offend me by accusing me of getting my history from "The History Channel"...of course I don't, but you could afford to learn some history, from whatever source you can.
Per the Taiwan Relations Act of 1979 the US committed to allowing Taiwan to defend itself, and if necessary, to protect it against agression. So much for 'not caring what the Taiwanese want.' Also, the US has always respectfully 'awknowledged the PRCs claim to Taiwan, but has never endorsed it, and HAS consistently and repeatedly stated that no settlement would be reached without the agreement of the Taiwanese. So, again, you have a somewhat shaky grasp of reality.
The rest of your post is even more of this kind of silly nonsense -- reusing old manure doen't make it smell any better.
Your last sentence demonstrates a degree of charm and style that has hitherto been lacking in your previous posts. Well done.
So, I will just say it politely: we disagree on this issue. It is true that many of the public statements regarding Taiwan have been intentionally vague, the Chinese, in particular, being good at not letting a long-term objective keep them from achieving their short-term goals (something the Palestinians and their supporters could learn from).
You say, "It's news to everyone, I think, that the US and the PRC have been "practically allies for the past 40 years " I don't think that is really news. In any case, I was referring to your 'Cold War Cant' statement -- whatever you think of my views on Taiwan, this isn't really a Cold War issue.
Vietnam: Yes, it's true, fear of China played a role in the US's Vietnam war calculations. But then there is also the fact that Vietnam and China fought a war during 1979. History is messy.
I don't personallly think that Taiwan will end up being independent, but that is simply an acceptance of reality -- however, it is absolutely true that China's claim to Taiwan is not exactly rock solid. Even less rock solid is its claim to Tibet, but nobody is willing to fight for Tibet at this point. It is also worth pointing out that after the UN recognized the PRC as the "China" in the UN, they offerred Taiwan a seat as Taiwan -- which the Taiwan government refused, on the rather silly (but historically consistent grounds) that they still represented the 'legitimate' governmenet of all of China. So, if China and the PRC ever reunite politically, it will be due to this historical affinity between the KMT crowd in Taiwan, and the CCP. Don't laugh -- it is the KMT side that wants reunification, although, of course, on their terms. The majority of the Taiwan population has never accepted either being part of China or their 50-year 'occupation' by the KMT. As I said, history is messy.
I don't know what will happen, but I personally believe that as long as the US continues to more-or-less support Taiwan, the dialogue can continue, and China will be deterred from any adventurism (which it would only do for its domestic audience, since both sides of the strait benefit greatly from the current and increasingly close relationship).
I am so disgusted and sickened by you chicken hawk neo cons. All you want to do is send young american boys to die for your silly utopian wilsonian world view that is as moronic as marxism, yet most of you have never so much as had a fight at your elementary school play ground and you certainly didn't serve. I am reminded by Washingtons farewell address other countries wars and squables that do not threaten America do not concern America. This country is headed down a path of fiscal suicide and is long past time for us to largely withdraw most of our troops from overseas and defend our own borders something we have been incapable of doing for far too long. If China were to invade Taiwan it would be of no concern or threat to the United States of America. For most of the Manchu dynasty Taiwan was part of China and I see no reason why it shouldn't be now of course it would be much better for it to be done peacefully, but either way is of no national security threat to America. Whatever governments that other countries decide to have is none of our business. America became a great country by not getting involved in the affairs of other nations not by declaring some new pax Americana on the world. That is nothing but a path to bankruptcy and ruin. We are headed down a path that is shockingly similar to Great Britain.
I respectfully disagree with everything you've said (and am polite enough to not respond to your use of a derisive term "chicken hawk".
The Taiwan equals Cuba analogy is particularly lame. Ignoring the specious "Taiwan is a US foothold in Asia" analogy (tell that to the Taiwanese, David), Rothkopf's ignorance and lack of historical understanding is awe-inspiring. Just consider this example of US 'hypocrisy':
"Imagine, for a moment, if the Chinese were to make a $6.4 billion arms sale to Cuba as part of a program to provide them with a strategic foothold just off our shores. We've been down that road before. We know how the U.S. would react."
Uh, yeah. The USSR pumped money and arms into Cuba for 30 years. The ONLY thing that got the US really upset was when the Russkies started building ICBM launchers 90 miles from Miami. Is that really the analogy you want to go with? Sure, I can imagine the Chinese reaction if we provided the people of Taiwan with their own ICBMs. In fact, we have intentionally not allowed Taiwan to have any weapons that are even potentially 'offensive' -- even some that they really need for defense, such as the F-16C/D.
We can't afford Taiwan? Hell, they are PAYING the US $6.4 Billion dollars so that THEY can defend THEIR democracy. Sounds like a win-win situation for the US.
IF you look at Taiwan purely from a 'Does this relationship benefit the United States in any real way?' the answer is an obvious 'no' and we need to further consider the colonial and cold implications of how this matter appears to the Chinese. Taiwan is a relic of the cold war and Chiang Kai -shek and his supporters were remnants of the old puppet governments of the colonial powers, this is why they had very little support and ultimately lost, Chiang Kai-shek was for all intents and purposes a dictator with no democratic values that supported and was supported by Chinese land owners that basically wanted to retain the system of serfdom across China.
HOWEVER modern Taiwan is democratic and vibrant and certainly embodies the ideals of the United States. They are a far more worthy ally in that respect than Saudi Arabia, Israel, Egypt or Georgia and they are certainly more worthy than our Cold War dictator friends in South America, Iran and Iraq.
SO while we should be supportive of Taiwan, it does no good to throw money at military expenditures which in a worst case scenario would simply end up in Chinese hands before we could even react. We should be doing all we can to help Taiwan compromise with China, after all having Taiwan part of China may be better in the long run, they know democracy and would that would be hard for the Chinese Government to eliminate , quash or keep from spreading.
I'm for and against it.
The best I can say for this is you're more of a real realist than Prof. Walt. However, if we're going down this route, it's important to take the next step and figure out what we can extract from the Chinese in exchange for a drawdown of our support for Taiwan. This administration seems to make a habit of throwing away our advantages and getting little to nothing in return (cf. Easter Europe missile and how the Obamaists assured us abandoning it would get Russia on board for Iran sanctions among other goodies).
So, what should be the price for Taiwan?
What should be the price of Taiwan?
Blue13326:
Try ask that question to the 20- million people in Taiwan.
It's not their decision to make.
It's ours.
ehhhh. i disagree. its amazing to me that you speak with indifference regarding taiwan, yet you treat israel like the fattest sacred cow on the planet. in my view, the situations are very similar. the only difference is that in the event of a major war the taiwanese are in greater danger. if you said something like "It is one of those issues for the Taiwanese and the Chinese to work out among themselves. Just as are the issues between China and Tibet." in the context of the israeli-arab and/or israeli/iranian conflicts, i would be utterly amazed. the chinese haven't felt brash enough to take taiwan back yet, but they surely would if we backed down completely. the difference in Taiwan's lobbying power between today and the 1970's really is amazing. my opinion is that we're either in favor of self-determination or not. if we're willing to abandon a fully-functioning democracy to the most sophisticated and wealthy autocratic government in the world then im guessing the Communist leaders would be emboldened even further. Taiwan at LEAST has to come to a political agreement with the PRC before we withdraw our support, and we should not try to change the status quo beyond that (granted, we should keep Taiwan from provoking China through a unilateral declaration of independence). If we subvert the Taiwanese deliberately for our own interests, we have no ideals whatsoever.
I agree with you except to say that while I am a moderately strong defender of Israel, there is far, far more moral and ethical reason for the US to support the Taiwanese than Israel. For one thing, the residents of Taiwan displaced the aboriginal residents several hundred years ago, not just 60, so they certainly have a better claim to their own state. So the hypocrisy of the 'let's sell out Taiwan' crowd is pretty evident.
TAIWAN TODAY IS 2% ABORIGINES OF MALAYO POLYNESIAN STOCK. 98% HAN. OUT OF THAT NUMBER IS 68% HOLO TAIWANESE WHOSE ANCESTORS MIGRATED IN WAVES FROM SOUTHERN FUJIEN OVER 400 YEARS. THE NEXT ARE THE HAKKA AT 15% WHO MIGRATED TO TAIWAN FROM KWANGTUNG AREA OVER THE CENTURIES AS WELL. THESE GROUPS HAVE INTERMARRIED WITH THE ABORIGINES OVER THE CENTURIES AS WELL. THE HOLO, HAKKA, AND ABORIGINES ARE THE NATIVE TAIWANESE WHOSE ANCESTORS HAVE SEVERED TIES TO CHINA AND LIVED THROUGH EXPERIENCES THAT IS UNIQUELY TAIWANESE INCLUDING TIMES WITH THE DUTCH, FORMATION OF A REPUBLIC OF FORMOSA IN 1895, AND JAPANESE COLONIALISM. THE MING GENERAL-KOXINGA WHO FORMED A KINGDOM IN TAIWAN I N THE 1600'S ALSO BROUGHT PEOPLE TO TAIWAN. AN IDENTITY DEVELOPED IN TAIWAN WHERE TIES TO CHINA WERE BASICALLY SEVERED--VERY SIMILAR TO THE AMERICAN EXPERIENCE AND AUSTRALIAN ONE WITH EUROPE OR BASICALLY BRITAIN. THEN IN 1949, WAVES OF NATIONALIST CHINESE REFUGEES OF THE FLEEING KMT ROC EXILED IN TAIWAN. THEY ARE THE MAINLANDERS WHO TOOK CONTROL OF TAIWAN IN A POLICE STATE WITH A MINORITY CONTROLLED GOVT. THEY SEE THEMSELVES AS CHINESE! THE TAIWANESE RESENT THIS GROUP CONTROLLING THEIR HOMELAND.
The US security commitment to Taiwan is a bellweather for support for other US allies in the region. Moreover, the "loss" of Taiwan would result in the potential interruption of trade lanes between Japan and the rest of Asia as well as complicate the ability of US forces to have access to the South China Sea and surrounding areas in case of need. Therefore, the loss of Taiwan would cripple the reputation of the US across Asia and potentially result in a huge loss of influence.
Why can't realists like Rothkopf get their head around this concept? Taiwan itself is small, but the strategic significance, and the effect on the US' reputation, of the loss of Taiwan would be enormous. Beijing knows this. In fact, several military officials have gone on record as touting the strategic advantages of occupying Taiwan vis a vis the US.
Get the picture, Rothkoph: Taiwan IS important to US interests.
except I would add that Taiwan is NOT small, it has 20 million residents (the same as Australia) and it is a regional power.
I am more worried about the propaganda effects that such a one-sided resolution would produce on China's domestic political scene. Such a development would be a huge boon to the PRC at first, and I imagine that would be a BAD thing. The only way it would be good is if the party became less paranoid, nationalistic and autocratic. But if China steamrolls Taiwan then it will be very hard to reconcile the Taiwanese to reconciliation. At that point, while China might win sovereignty they could also face a severe political (or even security) crisis on the island. With that, Beijing's paranoia will (once again) overcome its jubilation, dashing our hopes for a more democratic China. Taiwan's domestic scene is such that I doubt they would be able to democratically agree to reconciliation without arms sales from the US. Large swathes of the population support the arms sales, and dropping them would totally change the situation in Taiwan. It would arguably make peace more elusive, rather than more attainable. It might just be asking for another Tiananmen (except this time a lot worse). Granted, there is some risk of Beijing acting unilaterally regardless of what we do, but if a bad situation is guaranteed for Taiwan then I'd rather go down supporting them than kowtowing. That means dissuading Beijing rather than inviting them to expand. That doesn't necessarily mean starting World War III for Taiwan, but it means at least giving them some sort of independent defense capability. Taiwan has its own history and if its people decide to pursue it independently, we shouldn't get in their way. If they want to stand up to the largest autocracy the world has ever seen, are we really big enough cowards to tell them they can't? And just because this time Beijing's number of indignant press releases jumped 3-fold and they mentioned possibly "sanctioning" weapons companies that don't sell weapons to China? Our sanctions don't even work, so I doubt China's will either. And the Party's outbursts are just reaction to its nationalist "netizens" who believe that Taiwan is part of China regardless of Taiwanese inclinations. At this point China seems much like Russia: aching to reclaim the glory days of its empire. But there are limits to what the Russians can achieve. If China applies this a revisionist attitude to its ever-expanding international interests, then we could have a real problem.
the following conclusion: even if (the Rheinland, the Sudatenland, Czechoslovakia, Poland, Taiwan, etc.) are not that important in and of themselves, encouraging aggression is always a bad idea, since it just encourages more aggression. With which I agree completely. As Chuchill was fond of pointing out, the worst loss the allies suffered in WWII was in Munich in 1938, since all the rest followed from that inability to stand up to Hitler. He suggested labeling WWII "The Unnecessary War".
Sorry for all the WWII/Chamberlain references, which are a bit of a cliche. However, sometimes the shoe fits.
Some moron will use it as a platform to rail against Israel.
"Regional". China is a regional power, and that is about as far as their reach will go. In the meantime, Japan, Korea, and the other Asian nations will be looking to the US and to collective security agreements to keep the PRC at bay -- at least until China can show that it can be trusted. For good or ill, the US is needed now in Asia more than ever.
why would israel not apply in this same line of thinking??
why not--why are those who do ask this vis a vis israel a moron?? again--are you a semite--is rothkopf? ask yourself this before blindly support israel! i support israel for it is a democracy! no more and no less--this should apply to taiwan unwavingly!
Please reread my brief post. I think you misunderstood it. While lacking your, um, extreme passion, I am basically of the same view as you.
I KNOW YOU BASICALLY AGREE WITH ME! i WANTED TO INFORM AND ENLIGHTEN FELLOW READERS AND ROTHKOPF WHO ARE INTO THIS TOPIC. JUST HAPPENED TO PLACE IT AS A REPLY TO YOU.
ROTHKOPF IS ANOTHER SO CALLED CHINA-EXPERT panda hugger
Here is an email I sent to Mr Rothkopf directly! I had to take 20 minutes to write and challenge that pathetic article he wrote--not only does it hurt Taiwan, it hurts the US long term interests as well!
Mr Rothkopf,
How about writing another piece about the mistake and oversight you have made regarding the importance of Taiwan! Maybe the Taiwanese needs to find some oil off its shores before it becomes truly important???!!! Taiwan is small--so what---maybe that same line of thinking ought to go to Romania/Czech Republic vis a vis the Russians??? Oh OK--let's deem them worthy as a democracy and put them under NATO! They are important as democracies--and should be! Why dont you see them as takings for the Russians. As far as small size is concerned--Taiwan is on par with the Netherlands, Belgium, and Switzerland! Let's not talk about unwavering support for Israel! Are you Jewish Mr Rothkopf?? Do you fully support the idea of Israel in the sea of Arab and Islamic hostility?? Israel is 1/3 the size of Taiwan with unwavering and unquestionable US support! Kuwait is small! The Baltic nations are small and landlocked to Russia! Why do you find it necessary to suggest the USA capitulate without a firm stance in the political, social, economic, and military support of Taiwan--a beacon on democracy in East Asia along with Japan and S Korea! Do you think after Taiwan, China would not be more cavalier in challenging US interests in the Pacific?? How about settling old scores with Japan?? How about preventing unification of Korea under Seoul and with US military presence?? How about China allowing the rest of SE Asia and ASEAN becoming vassal states of China?? How about the alienation of Australia and New Zealand?? How about the fall of democracies and fledging democracies in Asia?? You talk about how it is refreshing for Obama to finally stand up to China--NOTHING COULD BE MORE CLEAR ABOUT THAT THAN THE USA GIVING TAIWAN COMPLETE SUPPORT BECAUSE OF ITS VALUES AS A DEMOCRACY, WESTERN ALLY, AND THAT THE PEOPLE OF TAIWAN DO NOT WANT TO UNIFY WITH CHINA! CHINA--IF YOU NEED REMINDING--IS AN AUTOCRATIC DICTATORSHIP WITHOUT THE RULE OF LAW. WHY CONDEMN THE TAIWANESE PEOPLE WHO ENJOY A FREE SOCIETY TO THAT??? WHY SUGGEST TAIWAN TO MOVE BACKWARDS AWAY FROM DEMOCRACY AND FREEDOM TO THAT OF CHINA WHICH DOES NOT EVEN SUPPORT THESE VALUES--THE CHINESE AUTHORITIES EVEN STATES THAT ANNUALLY! WESTERN DEMOCRACY IS NOT CHINA'S PURPOSE OR GOAL. Everyone else is moving into the light --Taiwan is already in the light and you suggest dimming it! Go study and understand Taiwanese history and its relationship to China for the past 400 years, and you will understand and realize China's claim to Taiwan is very tenuous at best! Taiwan has had many foreign occupiers and the Taiwanese people have developed a separate identity in national, social, legal consciousness that is so different from China that is beyond 60 years in the making--more like over a hundred! Taiwan was a Japanese colony for 50 years from 1895 to 1945 mind you. You already predict that Taiwan will already fall into China's hands--how fait accompli of a statement is that! TUCK and RUN! That's what Chamberlain said about Poland regarding Hitler! How about suggesting that Defending Taiwan wholeheartedly will show China that when the US talks about democracy and human rights, it means something! This would at least encourage China to change and not be cynical whenever the US brings the worthy issues up! How ridiculous of you to say that the Tibetans and the Chinese are working out their problems!! Hitler and the Jews were working out their problem in Europe too! Do you realize how stupid that comment was?? Also with China having all the clout (as handed to them by certain powers and encouraged by the likes of you), how are things going to be worked out fairly and equally! There is nothing to work out--that's because the Chinese puts preconditions all the time before any negotiations--then what is there to talk about?? REDIRECT YOUR suggestions! A strong US stance will solidify the confidence of democracies of Asia--what if Asia was white with the same threat (from China)??? I wonder what your take will be! Remember the Soviets?? Now let's consider getting those F-16's and Subs to Taiwan! The USA does not concentrate missles in Florida targeting Cuba! China has missles targeting Taiwan! Do you suggest that US is OK with this coercion? Taiwan does not plan on attacking China! There is no comparison between USA-Cuba and China-Taiwan. What you should suggest is for the US to set a policy that 1) the PRC does not have sovereignty over Taiwan! 2) Tell the Chinese that any attack and invasion of Taiwan will be met with US resistance and support of Taiwan. 3) Any determination of Taiwan's final official status is for the Taiwanese people to decide freely within Taiwan and without coercion from China. 4) Encourage China to open up its society to political freedom and rule of just law! That's American Values! China only understands tough talk and firmness behind your values and beliefs--people like you undermine that and hurt American strength in face of tyrannical regimes. China will never help with North Korea and Iran--ever! Wake up!
A TRUE DEMOCRACY ADVOCATE AND PROPONENT OF TRUE AMERICAN VALUES! Formosa Forever.
I basically agree with you. Rothkopf is an idiot, and as long he writes this articles instead of actually exercising any influence, the better, as we need people in government who have a bit more moral center than this clown does. I wonder what is his view of Israel? I don't he would be so willing to sell the Israelis out, despite the fact that Israel is a lot more questionable situation. I am a supporter of Israel, generally, but the contrast is pretty stark.
I also agree with your sentiment regading China's supposed 'help' on Iran, North Korea, climate change, etc. Ain't gonna happen. The Chinese are very rational -- they will seek to pursue their own interests unsentimentally on all issues. That is why they went out of their way to insult Obama -- who had gone out of his way to make nice -- in Copenhagen. Appeasing China will get us nothing, and lose us everything.
One comment though regarding Taiwan's size: Taiwan actually has about the same population as The Netherlands, Belgium, and Switzerland COMBINED.
HERE IS THE TRUE HISTORY OF TAIWAN!!!!! CHRONOLOGY IS GIVEN!! Unlike the chinese only emotional tirades are given!! Taiwan was never truly an integral part of China---that is a fact! The Portuguese called the land Ihla Formosa--beautiful island. Taiwan is home to the malayo polynesian aboriginal tribes--origins of the polynesian peoples in phillipines, malaysia, indonesia and all the way to Hawaii. The chinese empires saw Taiwan as a barbarian island with constant rebellion. It was seen as "beyond the pales of chinese civilization". Yes, there were waves of Chinese migrants from southern china in the 1600's leading to settlements. These were pioneers of mostly men who made the journey to escape the turmoil and bureaucracy of the imperial govt on china and set up a new life in a new land! Intermixing of these Chinese settlers with aborigines led to the Taiwanese people we know today! Very similar to European and British settlements in America for a new life. Similariy, These people were not out on behalf of the govt TO CONQUER OR CLAIM!! Some of these Chinese settlers were encouraged by the western powers who controlled parts of Taiwan to migrate! The spread of western thought and influence occurred. In Taiwan's 400 year history, it had French and Spanish settlements and posts and was also a Dutch colony for 38 years (1624-1662) known as Dutch Formosa. China was ruled by Ming dynasty and was then overthrown by the Manchus-Ching dynasty. Koxinga--a Ming general (who was born in Japan and half Japanese) then fled and took his loyalists to Taiwan and set up his own independent Kingdom after ousting the Dutch. The important thing here is that Taiwan had a separate Kingdom and was NOT a part of China which was under the Ching-Manchus! This lasted for 21 years until Ching-Manchus were able to annex Taiwan in 1683. Even under Ching rule, Taiwan was seen as beyond the pales of Chinese civilization by the govt in China. There were always rebellion against the mainland authorities by the Chinese settlers and aborigines and with each other within Taiwan. Taiwan was seen as ungovernable, and Chinese (Manchu) rule was tenuous at best! In 1888, Taiwan was then made a province of the Ching China, but this only lasted 12 years! After losing a war in 1895 to Japan over the dominance of Korea, The Manchu Ching govt of china relinquished and ceded Taiwan to Japan in Title and Perpetuity in 1895. Taking advantage of this transitional period, the people of Taiwan established the Democratic Republic of Formosa as resistance! The Republic only lasted 10 months as it was overpowered by the incoming Japanese army. Guerilla warfare continued for some several years until Taiwan was fully integrated into the Japanese empire as a model colony. This period of 50 years developed Taiwan's economy and brought Taiwan into the 20th century faster and more developed than in China. While Taiwan (Formosa) was Japanese, in China, the Rep of China under the Nationalists (KMT) overthrew the Ching-Manchus in 1911. Throughout this time before the WWII, The British and Canadians had significant missionaries spreading Protestantism to Taiwan--the Presbyterian Church is 150 years+ in Taiwan. Taiwan and Korea were recognized Japanese territories internationally before and during WW II. However, after the war in 1945, Japanese troops all returned to Japan. The ROC govt of Chiang Kai Shek from China received Taiwan as part of the Allied forces just as the USA returned to the Phillipines, occupied Japan and S Korea. The UK returned to Singapore, HK, Malaysia. Dutch returned to Indonesia. French returned to Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia. Portugal returned to E Timor. The Soviets occupied N Korea and Mongolia. To emphasize up to this point: The Peoples Republic of China from Beijing never ruled Taiwan period! The ensuing Civil war in China between the commies and Nationalists (KMT-ROC) never involved the Taiwanese people! The 4 years of ROC KMT rule of Taiwan from China from 1945 to 1949 was the only time in the past 100 + years Taiwan was politically associated with China--And that was under military occupation! The Taiwanese never associated themselves as Chinese and did not truly care or actively participated in that war! The Taiwanese resented Chinese rule as they behaved as occupiers and pillaged Taiwan to the point where many were nostalgic of the Japanese. In 1947, the ROC KMT troops initiated the Feb 28 massacre on the Taiwanese populace killing 30,000 people. White Terror and Martial Law began in Taiwan which would last for 50 years until 1988--longest in history of any nation. In 1949, the losing ROC troops and Chiang Kai Shek govt ducktailed and escaped for exile to Taiwan. In Taiwan, CKS shamelessly claim to be rule of "all China" based in Taiwan. All efforts for a new Taiwan Republic were brutally crushed by the KMT ROC chinese. However in reality, Taiwan and China were separate and going separate ways again! During this time, Taiwan is still legally Japanese. In 1951, Japan signed a peace treaty in San Francisco to address previously controlled territories in Asia with the Allies on the other side. However, NO Chinese representation--ROC or PRC--was present. When Japan released its title and any future reclamation to Taiwan, no benefactor of Taiwan was named or intended! This is like if you did not sign as the beneficiary to a car the original owner just released, YOU can not say the car is yours just because you are sitting in it! So Taiwan's official status is still technically undetermined! Members of the US administration at that time even states as such. Churchill stated so as well. In 1971, Taiwan itself was not expelled from the UN. What was expelled was the ROC (falsely representing China while being in Taiwan) was expelled from the UN--actually CKS govt walked out! ROC status now is not China! Also PRC can not and really has no legal claim to Taiwan. Taiwan belongs only to the Taiwanese people and only they can truly determine its own future: The preference under a free choice without coercion is a de jure indepedent nation (which the PRC fears and threatens to attack if done so). China knows Taiwan would not freely choose to join it, so it puts missles of a 1000+ as coercion to unify or else! Taiwan was never an integral part of China in its history--at least not to the extent these Chinese would make you believe as shanghai or beijing were. By the way during the Cairo conference when FDR and Churchill agreed to Chiang Kai shek for Taiwan to "be restored" to the Rep of China after the war is over from Japan WAS NOT a legal binding document but more of a press release. NO signatories occurred. ALSO if you were paying attention, How can Taiwan be "restored to the Rep of China" if Taiwan was a Japanese colony given in Title and Perpetuity since1895 and the Rep of China was founded in 1911! the Cairo declaration has no basis on the future of taiwan. The reason neither the ROC nor PRC were not invited to SF to sign as part of the allies was that these two were not seen as legitimate governments capable to speak on behalf of Taiwan!!! Only the people of Taiwan can speak for Taiwan!! TODAY as a result of history and influences, the people of Taiwan has developed a sense of a National identity that is Taiwanese and NOT Chinese! Nixon's one china policy only "ACKNOWLEDGES China's position (prc) that Taiwan is part of China"--it does NOT RECOGNIZE IT!! Words to placate the Chinese but the choice of wording is very important! This was only a communique! Now the Taiwan Relations Act signed in 1979 as a response by Congress to stick with Taiwan as the US (peanut Carter) switched diplomatic relations to Beijing is actually United States LAW--which states that any resolution of the Taiwan issue must be peaceful and any final outcome must have the free consent of the people of Taiwan without coercion!!! Any attempt by China to attack Taiwan is seen as a grave concern to the USA and it reseves the right with any means to provide Taiwan assistance for its defense! The Taiwan Relations Act legally and politically trumps any communiques with China. As far as the Chinese spew vitriol rhetoric about Taiwan always being a part of China--it is clearly bolderdash! GO check out any historical maps of China- throughout the dynasties, you will discover that Taiwan was hardly and rarely seen as being a part of it! Korea, Mongolia, and Vietnam were seen as parts of China throughout history at times when Taiwan was NOT! GO SEE THE NEW MOVIE COMING OUT ABOUT THE TAIWANESE PEOPLE"S STRUGGLE FOR FREEDOM, IDENTITY, and INDEPENDENCE--THIS FEB AND MARCH! THE MOVIE is called FORMOSA BETRAYED! So Taiwan and China did NOT split because of a civil war! Taiwan was never an integral part of China--its historical fact. Now Taiwan history does include Chinese periods! China is hoping that as it Shouts distorted history and make claims with tenuous history, the world will believe it! I am sure we can tell Hitler Austria is not a part of Germany!
IN addition about Taiwan today
THe Taiwanese people now have a political voice! A voice due to democracy that was developed through hard work, blood --lots of it, sweat , and tears!!! A democracy for a Free Taiwan nation and not unify with China. It is deserving of USA support and not being sold out!!!!
One more thing--Taiwan is strategically in east Asia!! something the Japanese enjoyed during the war! IT launched its invasion of the Philippines kicking out US forces for MacArthur to state "we shall return" from southern Taiwan. heavy commerical trades and commerce sail by Taiwan both ways from North and South Asia! This is also why the Chinese want Taiwan--IT IS STRATEGIC bozo Rothkopf! The Chinese believe that Taiwan needs to be under their control inorder to have a bluewater navy that can project outward---TO DO WHAT I MAY ask??? TO challenge USA in the pacific! The Taiwanese do not want to be default enemies of the USA and Japan! The USA should be counting its blessings that is has Taiwan in its camp--Cherish IT!
If you ask most Taiwanese, only a very very handful of people will welcome a reunification with China at this stage.
Mostly will say, they want status-quo, because they believe claiming independence will mean the inevitable of China's invasion.
Most successful business people in Taiwan do business in China. They also are the ones getting the best treatment from Chinese government.
KMT never identified itself as a indegenious party from Taiwan, and would like to one day play a significant part of modern China.
The reference to USSR helping Cuban building missle bases in Cuba is not a proper reference. Because USSR was helping Cuba to build ballistic missles that can reach US.
No one in Taiwan, even the military personnel would initiate a war with China.
China knows it fully well that all the US weapons will hinder its invasion, but none will be real threat to China's security. Taiwan will not be on a suicide mission to attack China, unless attacked upon.
The reality is US is considering turning its head away from Taiwan for its economic interest.
The sad thing is there is very little the people in Taiwan can do.
It's KMT government, businessmen, and now US are waiting in line to sell the people in Taiwan out, for hard cash!!!
is expending hot air more than flexing its immature muscle by conflating its economic strength with military animus. China may prove a formidable future military power but its army has been primarily utilized as an internal police force: it has not been involved in combat since the Korean War. While it churlishly and amateurishly harangues the president for his upcoming meeting with the Dalai Lama and threatens retaliation or severe consequences over the US-Taiwan arms deal, these declamations remain an exercise in diplomatic bravado. China has yet to grow up and realize that the rest of the world is not made up of China's masses, those who obediently, fearfully tow and swallow the party's line in all matters. China should learn that being a world power doesn't have to based on intimidation or war. It would be wiser for her to recognize that her money is a more powerful weapon. But herein lies her hubris, too.
David Rothkopf is the CEO and Editor-at-Large of Foreign Policy. His new book, "Power, Inc.: The Epic Rivalry Between Big Business and Government and the Reckoning that Lies Ahead" is due out from Farrar, Straus & Giroux on March 1.
Read More
(34)
HIDE COMMENTS LOGIN OR REGISTER REPORT ABUSE