Tuesday, August 25, 2009 - 4:32 PM

Despite a growing desire on my part to avoid the cage-match side of blogging, it is hard not to respond to Christian Brose's post "What is David Rothkopf smoking?" Brose seems to have, in President Obama's words, become all "wee-wee'd up" over my article in Sunday's Washington Post. I respond, of course, as a public service because so much of what he said provides a useful insight into how far we have come since the days of the Bush administration and how desperate Bush apologists are to find a way to suggest that their man and the policies they promoted were not actually the nadir of American foreign policy.
I should note however, that I also do this reluctantly because I think Brose is a pretty good writer and a fairly thoughtful guy. Still, when someone suggests that I have been a member of "the foreign policy hoi-polloi that went into intellectual hibernation in 2004 and only awoke this January" I figure, it's probably OK to offer a few words on behalf of my views. (Although it does explain the acorn residue I found in my cheeks.)
I will ignore for a moment the fact that Brose clearly is willing to spot the world the first term of the Bush administration as indefensible and focus on his core notion that somehow the years Condi was at State were almost indistinguishable in intent, concept and execution from what we have seen to date from the Obama team. It should be noted that coincidentally Brose was a speech-writer at State during the Bush administration.
Let's take his points one at a time:
That's the key point about these early days of this new foreign policy team. All administrations talk about partnerships and new relationships. To my mind, this one seems to believe what it is saying and is doing something about ... and at the very least is not as transparently hypocritical about such matters as was its predecessor. That in and of itself is perhaps the transformation most of the world was most hoping for.
PAUL J. RICHARDS/AFP/Getty Images
EXPLORE:AFGHANISTAN, BUSH ADMINISTRATION, BUSH'S LEGACY, CHINA, ENVIRONMENT, HILLARY, IRAQ, ISRAEL/PALESTINE, NORTH KOREA, OBAMA ADMINISTRATION, U.S. FOREIGN POLICY
It's all very well to say Obama is more multi-lateral than Bush was. It's certainly true.
The question then becomes what happens when the other side simply has no interest in taking the metaphorical outstreched hand.
Europe has politely told Obama to don't bother asking for more help in Afghanistan which immediately put the boots to his plans there.
There's no reason to suspect that either Tehran or Pyongyang will change their behaviour just because the President asks nicely given the past twenty years of evidence.
The biggest obstacle to Obama's climate change plans won't be India or China but Congress based on how many free permits they're planning on handing out under the cap and trade system currently being discussed.
Really what it boils down to right now is Obama simply hasn't been forced to make any hard decisions. He's still coasting on campaign rhetoric and now that it's becoming clear that other states oddly have their own priorities he's going to have to start making real decisions.
We won't officially get to see what kind of foreign policy President he really is until his September deadline on meaningful movement with regards to talks with Iran comes and goes.
He may have promised change but the reality is that the change he promised is probably way outside his control to produce.
This post is way too long for my tied eyes and juvenile attention span, so the next time you want to have a grudge match please save some space here and get a ring; I think I've seen Brose on bloggingheads, and, if I'm right, trust me you can take him.
As for whether you're a Clinton sycophant, here's a quick test. When Hillary went to Nigeria and lectured them on corruption, did you think:
a) smart power!
or
b) holy crap, it's hilariously ironic (and not in a good way) that a Clinton has the balls to go anywhere and lecture anyone on corruption
As for Obama, if smart power is having our closest ally release one of the worst mass murderers of Americans in modern times in exchange for oil deals, and having a nothing country like Libya celebrate this mass murderer's release, then maybe it's time to rethink things.
your writing style, language, and blunt response to intricate questions seems very familiar. dare I say, time.com middle east blog?
Does he really think these folks just picked up where George W. Bush and Condoleezza Rice and Dick Cheney left off? In Iraq? In Afghanistan and Pakistan? With their approach to engagement? With their commitment to multilateralism? With their approach to Guantanamo or torture? With their outreach to the Muslim world?
Are you counting one speech as some element of major "outreach to the muslim world"? Because aside from that and torture (and the latter's iffy), they haven't changed much. Guantanamo is still open (and will remain open), and they've even said they're still going to do rendition.
Can he actually believe that the Bush administration was a champion of multilateralism?
Bush talked a lot about multilateral forums and positions. Obama has . . . talked a lot about multilateral forums and positions. Care to explain the difference?
The core concept of the Obama administration is that just won't work anymore and that effective partnerships with a core group that includes new allies are the sine qua non of international progress.
In practice, it has amounted to basically the same thing - not to mention that the Bush Administration became more multilaterally oriented in the second term.
You put a lot of weight on rhetoric, Rothkopf. Why? If Obama promises Peace, Liberty, and the American Way, why should we take him at his words?
Second, he cites a four-year-old Condi speech in which she mouths words he may have written about partners in the emerging world but seriously, wasn't he paying attention?
Are you a mind-reader, now? I'd think you'd be a lot richer for it.
(which took the Bush administration about 7 years to discover),
Did you conveniently forget the Road Map from 2003? Bush showed less interest than Clinton, but Clinton was exceptionally involved in the peace process by American historical standards.
it has helped engineer an international response to the financial crisis
Please. The Chinese announced their stimulus well before the American one, and the Brits would have done their own with or without the US. Meanwhile, the US couldn't even get the states in the G-20 to agree to a broad stimulus.
the president's Prague and Cairo speeches represented dramatic breaks with the Bush past and set U.S. policies with the Muslim world
You think saying the same goals the US has had for two decades with regards to the muslim world (which, for some reason, always seems to coincide with the "arab world", in spite of the arabs being a minority of muslims) is a "dramatic break"? Don't make me laugh.
(China is much more forward leaning and inclined to a deal)
You're joking, right? The Chinese have openly said that they want essentially 1% of the US's GDP in money as compensation, and even then they won't agree to a hard cap. In the meanwhile, whenever the issue is raised with the Chinese, they always say, "But you had your turn to pollute, so why can't we do it?" Same with the Indians.
He inaccurately suggests that the only thing we can agree with the Russians is to reduce the number of nukes (as if that were a small thing)
It's not a new thing. Did you forget repeated negotiations on nuclear stockpiles throughout the Reagan and earlier Carter Administrations?
He says Iran and North Korea are a still difficult while failing to acknowledge the recent progress made with the North Koreans
Like what? Shadowing the boats carrying trafficked North Korean arms and weapons tech?
He says Pakistan is dysfunctional but fails to note how much more we are currently doing to address that.
We're not doing anything more except to possibly increase funding to the Pakistani government. Which puts us in league with Bush Jr, and a number of earlier Presidents who backed the Pakistanis due to the Cold War.
engagement with Iran is a real departure (on which the jury is admittedly still out).
It was when Clinton did it. Obama has done nothing but talk about talking to the Iranians, which is nothing new at this point.
Can't tell if you're being intentionally disingenuous on some of your points but just thought I should point out:
It was when Clinton did it. Obama has done nothing but talk about talking to the Iranians, which is nothing new at this point.
Actually he has been in low level diplomatic talks with Iran since he's been in office, and has sent at least two secret (at the time) letters to Khamenei, the last I'm aware of was right before their elections. Not widely reported in the American press, but reported nonetheless.
Like what? Shadowing the boats carrying trafficked North Korean arms and weapons tech?
Wrong time frame. That happened a while ago, long before Clinton made his journalist saving trip. After the trip, NK has been much more receptive to diplomatic overtures, presumably from messages Obama gave to Clinton for Kim Jong.
You don't hear of all the macho nihilist drivel normally coming from NK at this time do you? Not saying it will necessarily last, but the thaw is real and more genuine than it ever was in the GWB years.
It's not a new thing. Did you forget repeated negotiations on nuclear stockpiles throughout the Reagan and earlier Carter Administrations?
Did you forget that Reagan left office over twenty years ago? Did you also forget that since then the Soviet Union disintegrated and it's a revitalized Russia that Obama made this pact with?
Also, remember how belligerent Medvedev was the day Obama was elected about how he would install missiles in Russian territory just over the border from Poland in response to the missile shield the US was planning? This was in direct response to Bush's diplomatic approach, which was to tell the Russians that what they do in Poland is none of their business. Do you realize just four months later in March, Medvedev announced his decision to drop plans to build the Iskandar missile sites? That was a positive development from diplomacy and engaging the Russians. This doesn't mean Obama has dropped the missile shield defense plans either.
You're joking, right? The Chinese have openly said that they want essentially 1% of the US's GDP in money as compensation, and even then they won't agree to a hard cap. In the meanwhile, whenever the issue is raised with the Chinese, they always say, "But you had your turn to pollute, so why can't we do it?" Same with the Indians.
No, you must be the one kidding. First, foreign policy is more than just rhetoric. You can't blame the Chinese and Indian rhetoric of the moment. Considering the US had signed a world wide treaty in Kyoto to work on climate change, and that the US abruptly left the treaty when it didn't suit GWB's purposes in 2001, it's no surprise China and India would be moving cautiously. But this is a problem of believing what they say, and not watching what they do. Rhetoric is rhetoric. China'a rhetoric before this was always "wait for the US". Meanwhile, the news out of China is that they are increasingly aware of climate change issues and do want to tackle that overriding pollution in their urban areas. Chinese scientists have recently recommended to the government to focus on implementing more environment friendly (greener) technologies. China is willing to deal, but why should they tip their hand until the US is ready to commit to deal? Had GWB not crushed this issue, it would have fostered more trust on all sides and a deal could be in place right now.
Bush talked a lot about multilateral forums and positions. Obama has . . . talked a lot about multilateral forums and positions. Care to explain the difference? You think saying the same goals the US has had for two decades with regards to the muslim world (which, for some reason, always seems to coincide with the "arab world", in spite of the arabs being a minority of muslims) is a "dramatic break"? Don't make me laugh.
The laugh is directed at you, not with you. You seem oblivious to the major difference. Perhaps you are a foreign policy neophyte. GWB had no CREDIBILITY pushing multi-lateralism due to the reckless unilateralism of his first term. He also approached the Muslim world in a very paternalistic, condescending way, dictating to them what was best for them and trying to impose democracy at the tip of a sword. You can do all the Muslim outreach you want, but if it reeks of hypocrisy you won't be taken credibly. Obama, OTOH has gone out of his way to actually listen to what the various heads of state have to say when formulating regional policy. That goes a long way in rapport building. You seem to think foreign policy is merely what the pols say on TV and believe all the rhetoric. It isn't, there's much more to it. You should investigate it yourself.
This is what overstatement gets you. Having begun by asserting the revolutionary, transformative quality of Sec. Clinton's tenure at the State Department, David Rothkopf has after a single exchange with one critic backed away to the familiar argument that the Obama administration has been left an awful mess by its predecessor and at least deserves credit for appearing to believe what it says.
I happen to agree with that argument, or at least with most of it. As thoughtful and even insightful as some Republican foreign policy hands can be when discussing individual issues in the abstract, most of them are too deeply invested in the Bush administration -- and necessarily in the feckless, self-regarding, unworthy man at its head -- to offer analysis or advice that is entirely trustworthy. The Bush administration was an eight-year-long disaster, in many areas but certainly in the fields of foreign and national security affairs. Republicans who worked in it remained chained to it: denying everything, persuading no one, and incidentally postponing continually the day when the GOP will no longer be known primarily as George Bush's party.
Now, does any of that mean spin -- not even, as I've noted here, particularly new or original spin -- about the coruscating brilliance and world-changing qualities of Hillary Clinton ought to be accepted as analysis? No; just no. In fact, considering that so much of the new administration's time and energy need to be devoted to repairing damage inflicted by the last one, overselling of this kind is among the less helpful things sympathetic commentators could do for it.
I haven't backed away. I genuinely have the sense that after the euphoria of the Clinton years and the Manichean hysteria of the Bush years that the Obama-Clinton team is finally getting a grip on the post-Cold War world...one in which the limitations of U.S. power are clearer, in which the partners with which we must work are different, in which the issues that are priorities are often new ones requiring major institutional and policy adjustments from the USG. The Brose argument is to cite similarities in words between the two administrations or to suggest that both had the same top 200 priorities. My point is that they are acting very differently and their top priorities are different and being handled in a different way.
Were both in Iraq? Afghanistan? Troubled by Iran? North Korea? Speaking of partners and multilateralism? Addressing the value of new technologies and new constituencies? Yes. But are the policies with regard to Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, and North Korea providing to be quite different? Has the list of core partners changed? The notion of what is an appropriate role for the U.S.? For multilateralism? Has the seriousness with which climate or women's issues are addressed changed radically? Are new technologies playing a significantly more central role in redefined diplomacy? Yes.
You can disagree with me...but I feel confident that ultimately history will see what is happening as one of the more dramatic and meaningful policy shifts in modern U.S. history.
I appreciate the response, but note that David Rothkopf is here replying once again more to Christian Brose than he is to me. I also note that Sec. Clinton has now become the "Obama-Clinton team."
I don't even agree with Brose's argument. I think the best one can say about the second Bush term is that some damage control was accomplished after the disasters Bush caused during his first. Brose regards the foreign policy record of the second term as normal and sees Obama seeking to continue it; Rothkopf regards that record as normal and sees Obama -- in the original Washington Post article it was Clinton -- seeking to transform it. I regard the record of the two Bush terms as indivisable, not normal at all, and incumbent on any new administration to correct. I think President Obama realizes this, sort of, the qualification being necessary because he has not yet come to the point at which he needs to make decisions pursuant to this realization that will be broadly unpopular.
Now, Rothkopf does allude to an important factor in American foreign relations that more people ought to consider thoughtfully. This is that post-Cold War administrations, to say nothing of the post-Cold War American public, have not had very clear understandings of what American national interests ought to be. I note the efforts made by the Obama administration, inadequate though I consider them to be, to move us away from devoting massive resources year after year to the future of one mid-sized Arab country; I approve of its efforts to address the many issues left for years on the far back burner by a Bush administration preoccupied with the adventure in Iraq. These are steps in the right direction. I just think that describing them as "dramatic," "transformative," or "profound" is in the very best case premature. Once again, it is also consistent with how Hillary Clinton has often been portrayed by her admirers during a long career in public life that to date shows a high ratio of extravagant praise to actual accomplishment.
I find this statement to be a bit curious:
" Are new technologies playing a significantly more central role in redefined diplomacy?"
Is there any chance you may be able to elaborate on that a bit please?
Obama expands rendition to include white collar criminals:
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-rendition22-2009aug22,0,1840939.story?track=rss
'A Lebanese citizen being held in a detention center here was hooded, stripped naked for photographs and bundled onto an executive jet by FBI agents in Afghanistan in April, making him the first known target of a rendition during the Obama administration.
Unlike terrorism suspects who were secretly snatched by the CIA and harshly interrogated and imprisoned overseas during the George W. Bush administration, Raymond Azar was flown to this Washington suburb for a case involving inflated invoices.'
Now that's Change You Can Believe In!
Good. I'm glad justice is being done!
It's a relief that the white collar crooks of the kind that embezzled billions of dollars from the US taxpayer and from fake and overcharged invoices are now fair game for extradition to the US to meet their maker.
It's about time, and it certainly is change I can believe in.
Not to split hairs, but this isn't rendition. Rendition is when we (America) give up a prisoner to another country to be interrogated. Not the other way around. Second of all, under current laws(none of the secret, cloak and dagger executive orders to intelligence agencies), the FBI is to pursue all criminal cases around the world involving Americans. Extradition is possibly the correct word to use (which is lawful in most parts of the world). It even states in the article you provided that the government of Afghanistan consented to the transfer. Now if the agents treated him harshly, that is not to be condoned, but then again, it is his word against the agents (quite a pickle). If you like, I can link you to a website with the meaning of the word rendition, and another link to what our current laws are on FBI pursuit of criminals outside of america or Extradition. Sorry this was a reply to mr. blue on the la times article
David Rothkopf is the CEO and Editor-at-Large of Foreign Policy. His new book, "Power, Inc.: The Epic Rivalry Between Big Business and Government and the Reckoning that Lies Ahead" is due out from Farrar, Straus & Giroux on March 1.
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