Today Hillary Clinton made a statement in Thailand that the United States would work to create a defensive shield to help protect Gulf allies from a potential Iranian nuclear threat. Her point is that Iran should not think creating nukes will give them a strategic advantage because we will work relentlessly to blunt any edge nukes might provide.

Seems reasonable enough. Not surprisingly though, Clinton's comments landed in Jerusalem like a dud scud. According to Agence France Presse, Israel's Intelligence Services Minister Dan Meridor responded:

I heard without enthusiasm the American declarations according to which the United States will defend their allies in the event that Iran uses nuclear weapons, as if they were already resigned to such a possibility. This is a mistake. We cannot act now by assuming that Iran will be able to arm itself with a nuclear weapon, but to prevent such a possibility."

I also agree with this view. That's what I like about the Middle East. It's rife with complexities and no issue has fewer than three sides. What I don't like much about the Middle East is when it becomes, as it often does, that magical fantasy land where passions can be applied to fantasies to produce facts ... or where the insupportable is often the unshakable foundation of absolute certitude. (Which explains a number of religious developments in the region ... but I will gingerly sidestep that discussion for now.)

My recent post on shifting attitudes in Israel and the United States regarding the relationship between the two countries produced among those commenting on it a host of really interesting comments from all over the spectrum ... and some of the nasty/loony stuff we could all do without. 

Of course, item number one in this latter category is racism or prejudice of any sort against any group. Examples of this were visible in a number of the comments, sometimes boldly, sometimes insidiously. The big winner in the makes-ya-wanna-barf contest came from a guy named "briand" who, in reference to a rather overheated pro-Israeli post by AllanGreen, wrote, "If this is parody, kudos! I think the thing I'll miss the most about you Jews is your sense of humor. Not so much the apartheid/lebensraum mentality though." Scroll on through the comments ... there's lots of hatred there, in and among some fairly thoughtful arguments for one side or another.  

Another commenting technique that drives me up a wall is imputing views to me (for whatever reason) that I don't actually hold. For example: I'm no fan of the settlements, think they ought to be dismantled, am not a Zionist, don't support the views of the Likud, and based on his track record to date am no Bibi fan. I also don't think that taking a tough stand against the Iranian nuclear program implies the need to attack and lay waste to Iran. Rather, we need an international program of inspections and enforcement that explicitly asserts the right to use force to compel compliance and offers a multilateral guarantee of providing that force. (Not just in the case of Iran, by the way, but in the case of all future signatories of the new NPT we will start negotiating next year ... an NPT that should offer the framework within which the deal with Iran ought to be included.) 

Another aggravating approach which often undercuts otherwise reasonable arguments is making insupportable assertions. For example, one reader argued that Israel had Iran and Ahmadinejad all wrong, that the Iranian president's comments about destroying Israel were really a deliberate, unfair misquoting of him and that by extension; Israel had nothing to fear from Tehran. Really? Aren't we forgetting 30 years of official pronouncements or the guy who chants "death to Israel" at afternoon prayers? I think it was the same reader who argued another reason to chill out about any potential Iranian threat was that Iran has not attacked anyone in 250 years. This overlooked, as another reader pointed out, the fact that the country has for decades been the world's leading state sponsor of terror...which ought to count for something.    

In this vein, one of the most popular insupportable assertions is that somehow solving the settlements problem or even the larger Israel-Palestinian problem will in turn solve or contribute greatly to solutions for all our other problems in the Middle East -- this despite the fact that many of the biggest problems in the region antedate the founding of Israel by a number of centuries.

In the interest of dispelling this misconception, here, off the top of my head, are 15 major problems in the Middle East that would not be solved by solving the Israeli-Palestinian dispute:

  1. The Iranian nuclear program
  2. The regional arms race that may be triggered by the advancement of the Iranian nuclear program
  3. The Saudi succession problem
  4. The problems associated with getting Shias, Sunnis and Kurds to get along in Iraq
  5. The problems associated with possible Kurdish succession from Iraq and Turkey
  6. The Egyptian succession problem
  7. The battle between moderates and hard-liners in Iran
  8. Our dependency on Middle Eastern oil and its economic, political and environmental consequences
  9. The efforts of Taliban, al Qaeda and other extremists to assert their influence in Afghanistan
  10. The efforts of Taliban, al Qaeda and other extremists to assert their influence in Pakistan
  11.  Anti-U.S. and anti-Western terrorism not associated with Israel but with the promotion and expansion of Western cultural values and perceived global inequalities
  12. The ability of the Palestinians to form a stable, working state with functioning political processes
  13. The historic competition for resources in the region including, increasingly, water
  14. The conflict between Hezbollah and pro-Western political groups to gain a foothold in Lebanon
  15. Israel's historical tensions with Syria, Iran, and virtually every other major Arab state

This doesn't include related issues like the tensions between extremist or tribal Islamic groups with roots in the region and Russia, China, and other bordering countries. Perhaps you have others, feel free to add. (Just try to restrain yourself if you feel the impulse to make a comment that uses as its primary source The Protocols of the Elders of Zion.)

Dismantle the settlements. Create two states. Create an internationally monitored buffer between those states. Let billions in aid flow in to help relieve the plight of the Palestinians. Please, do all these things. They are all long overdue. But know this: They may remove an irritant, they may remove an argument from extremists, they may put U.S. relations on a more even footing with other countries in the region. But they won't make the Middle East appreciably less dangerous or difficult and I guarantee you, they won't stop efforts by the countries of the region to continue to scapegoat, confront and battle Israel on countless other pretexts.

David Silverman/Getty Images

 
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JOHNCHEN

2:48 AM ET

July 23, 2009

We decided we can't let

We decided we can't let extremists try to take over a very very poor nation halfway around the world. WTF?

I don't think you understand how sarcasm is supposed to work.

We didn't stop extremists from taking over the USA in 2000.

Those "extremists" left peacefully when the people voted them out.

Hezbollah hasn't done much military-type attacks on pro-Western political groups, have they?

I can recall several instances in the past few years where their differences with the Siniora government degenerated into violence.

 

JOHNCHEN

3:54 AM ET

July 23, 2009

This was in response to the

This was in response to the first comment above by J Thomas. I guess I don't understand how replying to comments is supposed to work.

 

BLUE13326

5:56 AM ET

July 23, 2009

I don't know, a lot of the

I don't know, a lot of the sound and fury over Israel has always seemed to me just the latest incarnation of 'it's all the fault of the Jews' crusted over with a lot of pseudo-intellectual trappings and moral equivalency.

Just today, Jordan decided to strip all Palestinians of their citizenship. The silence from the people who pretend to care about their plight is deafening. The Arab countries have treated the Palestinians horribly, under Egypt, Gaza was a prison camp. But if it's not the Jews involved, these people don't have much to say. Sure, they've learned to cover the old hatred with intellectual nonsense, like mistranslations of mistranslations, but this just shows they are lacking in self-awareness.

 

WADOSY

6:00 AM ET

July 23, 2009

 

HERESIARCH

11:00 PM ET

July 23, 2009

Yes they do... and as far as

Yes they do... and as far as the Palestinians are concerned it includes Jordan.

Which is one of the reasons that Jordan ran the PLO out of the country in 1970.

 

WADOSY

6:09 AM ET

July 23, 2009

 

JAMES HOVLAND

7:04 AM ET

July 23, 2009

Humanize.

To build and maintain support for war, they "demonize the enemy". By "they" I often mean the military industrial complex, the neocons, religious extremists and other equally ridiculous advocates of violence. Their intent is to overcome our natural objection to killing other humans, and portray war as both "right" and "necessary".

Humanize instead, and peace can be achieved. Humanize your own for security, and the "enemy" for peace.

 

WADOSY

7:55 AM ET

July 23, 2009

anyhow, in conclusion...

i gotta say that rothkopf is a sick son-of-a-bitch.

he has no intention of going for peace. the only thing he's interested in is jewish domination of the middle east, especially the oil.

he will sabotage any attempt at peace... he will cheerfully abandon any pretense at moral behavior if he thinks he can pull it off.

can he get away with it?

 

ZOOMBULANCE

2:46 PM ET

July 23, 2009

Wadosy: Why do you post here?

Wadosy:

Why do you post here? Everyone ignores you. You would be better off at rense.com or stormfront where you'd be amongst your own.

 

WADOSY

3:23 PM ET

July 23, 2009

what moral right did europeans have...

...to move to palestine and terrorize hundreds of thousands of people from their homes and land?

 

ARAMIS1373

3:40 PM ET

July 23, 2009

History will show........

The comment above "Hezbollah hasn't done much military-type attacks on pro-Western political groups, have they?"

They haven't necessarily conducted any attacks against pro-Western political groups is only slightly true. How does one explain the Hezbollah (or Hezbollah sponsored i.e. JAM or other Sadr elements) attacks against Iraqi political leaders that are believed to be pro-US or pro-West? For that matter, how does one explain all Hezbollah attacks against US, Coalition, and Iraqi forces in Iraq under the "Iraqi Hezbollah" banner? Who was/is manufacturing, supplying, delivering, and employing the EFP's that have killed scores of innocents and security forces in Iraq since roughly 2006?

Iran has done a fantastic job at sponsoring Hezbollah and Hezbollah type groups throughout the Middle East, through attacks or grass roots support activities to influence and gain power in the region. Specifically, men wearing the sporty yellow colored Hezbollah Construction Company t-shirts would arrive following an Israeli attack or missile strike in Lebanon with food aid, construction materials, and financial support. Make no bones about it, Hezbollah endeared themselves with the average citizens as the only group that would come to their aid following what was always portrayed as violence against the innocent.

Let's ask the tough question. Where is Hezbollah getting all the financial support to aid these unfortunate victims? Iran? Syria? Where is Hezbollah, a recognized political apparatus, getting the financial aid to purchase and construct deadly weapons used throughout the region and to arm factions that may not be Iranians but whose actions support Iran's agenda?

Let's also not forget the Islamic Jihad Organization, to which the late Imad Mughniya belonged, that is primarily built from within the ranks of Hamas, sponsored by Hezbollah and the Iranian paramilitary force (Qods Force) that have conducted numerous attacks in the past few decades against military and non-military targets in the Middle East and Europe.

Now while Iran has made gestures, both stupid and conciliatory, to western and Middle East countries, their support to Hezbollah and Hezbollah-like groups and surrogates, the conciliatory gestures continue to fall by the way side. Iran could be a regional influence, and a positive one at that, but their support to this particular group and their surrogates has got to end before any reconciliation could be achieved. Even when Hezbollah is not overtly and directly taking credit for attacks, or the more ominous and nasty business of what appears to be a successful and long-lasting covert influence plan.

Iran may eventually have to be recognized as the regional player they are. Does this mean the other power players have to accept Iran as is? No! We would probably be closer to discussing these fine points with Iran (support to Hezbollah and surrogates, nuclear weapons development, etc) had the recent Iranian elections turned in favor of Mousavi, but this is not the case.

That said, it is not the time to meddle in Iranian politics or the process. Let the Iranians wipe clean their feet from the garbage that has accumulated within the ranks of the Mullah's and the current President and his minions in the paramilitary forces. They did it when they finally got frustrated with the Shah, so it's only a matter of time before it happens with the current regime. And if I recall correctly, as a matter of economic necessity vice a singular hatred for the Shah, they drove him out of power, leaving Khomeini to fill the vacuum. Again, it is all a matter of time.

" 5. The problems associated with possible Kurdish succession from Iraq and Turkey"

Thank the Brit's for demarcating across cultural and tribal lines of life. They screwed it up in a race for the valuable oil deposits in the early 20th century in what is now Mosul. Granted, they were working against the German's, Russian's, Turk's, and the US, however maintained control until their empire crumbled and the US managed to wedge themselves into the picture. And it is now these very same oil reserves that are going to maintain the violent rift/spit between Iraq and its neighbors. Does anyone really believe that allowing the Kurd's autonomy and statehood will solve the problem? Come on!

Whether Israel is supporting the Kurd's, or not, do we really want to see another Balkan's scenario in teh Middle East? It's bad enough with the Israeli-Palestinian problem. The Kurd's maintain power in northern Iraq because the Coalition is providing the valuable protection, as are the Iranians (they love the cheap and illegal oil deals), and if neither were there, the Kurd's would be slaughtered by one of the regional players or Iraqi's themselves. And should we care?

The Kurd's looted, raped, and killed numerous Christian's and Turkoman's after the US left them high and dry after Gulf War I. Where was the world in condemning their actions?

Maybe a heavy handed dictator, much like has been created with Maliki (check out the secret shia prisons that have been killing off Sunni's and Kurd's for years under Maliki) is the answer. Has the Middle East ever been ruled using carrots, or has it been through the violent hammer of someone willing to control the chaos with the sword?

Whether or not this happens, or if Maliki remains in power with the support of his brutal Shia dominated regime, the Kurd's will never be given room to rule their own land. They can try as they might, but will face even worse treatment than by Saddam. Again, the only reason this hasn't happened yet is thanks to the Coalition.

After all, this is a battle for resources, not one of morals and virtue.

"15. Israel's historical tensions with Syria, Iran, and virtually every other major Arab state"

Syria could be the stabilizer for the region, but they have little option other than to sleep with Iran. Syria could choke off the material support Iran has enjoyed with unlimited border access and lines of operations in support of Hezbollah and heir surrogates in Lebanon. Then again, they could also play nice if Israel would stop all the new settlement construction. Again with the concessions, I know, but this problem with Syria will be long-lasting until Israel gives up their bull-headed attitudes and actually holds up to their end of the bargain.

 

DT776

4:21 PM ET

July 23, 2009

8. dependency on Middle Eastern oil

If you wrote this same kind of piece but made our dependency on Middle Eastern oil (8.) the main topic and made Israel/Palestine peace number 8, how many of these 15 would drop off the list?

The problems themselves would not be solved but for many of the 15, their strategic importance to US would be greatly diminshed to the point where they would no longer be our problem.

I'm thinking 1-7,12,13,14,15. And 9,10,11 are problems caused by (at least partially) past US policies resulting from our dependency on ME oil. Most if not all of our problems in the ME result from our dependency on oil or our support of Israel. And why would supporting Israel be important to US if we didn't need the region's oil?

 

HERESIARCH

11:10 PM ET

July 23, 2009

"Most if not all of our

"Most if not all of our problems in the ME result from our dependency on oil"

Ah yes the myth of US dependency on oil from the Middle East.

You do of course realize that out of the top 15 countries who supply oil to the US only three are actually in the ME?

And out of those top three accounted for (in April 2009) only 1,605,000 barrels per day out of the total imports of 8,573,000 barrels perday. Or in other words about 18% of your imports.

And given that 60% of the petroleum consumed in the US is in the form of gasoline you could pretty much eliminate those imports just by mandating a minimum fuel economy for vehicles... rather than an increase... and increasing your federal gas taxes.

If you have a dependency it's because oil is too cheap.

 

STACYX

4:42 PM ET

July 23, 2009

Mr. Rothkopf- I understand

Mr. Rothkopf- I understand your overall point- that a deal between the two won't magically make every other problem in the Mid-East disappear and while some perhaps believe that, doesn't it work the other way also? By linking Israeli-Palestinian negotiations on, for example, a timetable for "dialogue" with Iran, aren't the more hawkish elements doing the same thing?

The US is currently involved in 2 wars and it would seem that the very same people (the pundits and politicians) who were so wrong about Iraq, are more than willing to lead us down the same road with Iran. What would a pre-emptive attack against Iran's *alleged* civilian/?noncivilian nuclear sites do to the potential for peace in the middle east? Wouldn't it be disastrous? The people who forcefully advocate for "action" against Iran become very quiet when it comes to articulating what we should do and what they think the likely short and long term consequences are for both Israel and the US. Could such pre-emptive action *possibly* make Israel and the US even MORE vulnerable to terrorism? And wouldn't it likely totally destroy any chance for peace? Yet *another* attack on yet *another* Muslim country is hardly going to help any situation we seek to improve in the Mid-East.

And if we talk about India and Pakistan having nukes because the other does, couldn't the same be said of the countries in the Middle East? I'm not advocating for an arms race there, but I find it interesting that no one EVER mentions the fact that Israel already has nukes and correct me if I am wrong, I seem to remember reading that Israel doesn't seem to really like to comply with international mandates and inspections and the like so if there is a nuclear arms race brewing in the Mid-East, does Israel perhaps have a hand in that? Or at the very least, how do we totally ignore that factor (Israel's nukes) when discussing any aspect of Mid East peace?

********************************
Secretary Clinton Blog

 

BRETT

4:54 PM ET

July 23, 2009

The Iranian nuclear

The Iranian nuclear program
The regional arms race that may be triggered by the advancement of the Iranian nuclear program

It won't solve this, but it would make it a lot easier to isolate the Iranians if an Israel-Palestine solution was worked out.

The ability of the Palestinians to form a stable, working state with functioning political processes

You don't think not having to worry about Israelis coming in, carving the area up, and then looking the other way at settler construction on privately owned Palestinian land wouldn't help the above?

Israel's historical tensions with Syria, Iran, and virtually every other major Arab state

An Israeli-Palestinian peace would help immensely in this area, since all of these states (except Iran) are under strong pressure from the populations not to be too friendly with the Israelis.

 

DJROTHKOPF

5:46 PM ET

July 23, 2009

Just a reminder...

I didn't make the above argument to suggest we should not pursue peace between Israel and the Palestinian people. In fact, I thought I was clear that I think that is a vitally important goal. I also think it will help in many ways with other issues the U.S. has in the region. My point was that doing it will not be quite as transformational as everyone hopes it will be. But again, by all means, advancing toward a resolution of this conflict should be among our most urgent priorities.

Further, I do not think for a moment that there is not hope of a day when Iran is a much more constructive, stabilizing force in the region. (Nor do I think we are blameless in the relationship...not even close.)

Finally, I agree with the point made above...and I have made it separately before...reducing our dependency on oil is the single most important thing the U.S. can do to reset all the problems cited here among our list of international priorities. It would not however, reduce the threat of WMD proliferation nor would it address political instability in the region which could have destabilizing consequences beyond its borders. Again...just to put everything in perspective.

 

MDREW

4:35 AM ET

July 24, 2009

A straw man if i ever saw one

From the comment above not the post, but it illustrates the point well:

I didn't make the above argument to suggest we should not pursue peace between Israel and the Palestinian people. In fact, I thought I was clear that I think that is a vitally important goal. I also think it will help in many ways with other issues the U.S. has in the region. My point was that doing it will not be quite as transformational as everyone hopes it will be. But again, by all means, advancing toward a resolution of this conflict should be among our most urgent priorities.

David, you're really not remotely explaining the difference between yourself and "everyone" whom you seek to criticize. You clearly concede in the comment above) that there will be some important benefits for U.S. interests beyond of a settlement beyond those for the parties themselves, but then simply assert that you have the done the right calculation about the extent of those benefits by simply declaring that "everyone" else thinks thinks that a settlement have will more far-reaching implications that they should allow themselves to think, without citing what any of these people actually think they would be! You would need to cite some actual arguments (preferably from people whom we would have some disposition to listen to in the fist place) that at least some of the fifteen things you say won't be changed by a settlement actually would be for this to be a coherent (or at least not purely self-congratulatory) post. Those arguments might be out there, but you don't bother to go find them to let us see whether we might have taken them seriously in the fist place.

Separately, you partake of a common conflation in your 15 items. As I said, I'm not sure which of those problems have been argued to lend themselves to a settlement on the territories to begin with. But beyond that, the only thing that holds your list together is that they are in a general sense problems "in the Middle East." As we all know, "the Middle East" is a term with a one very specific and one very general meaning. You adopt the most general meaning of the term in composing your list, with problems implicating countries with borders on countries spanning from Bulgaria to Pakistan and from Sudan to China. But who has been arguing that all these problems won't endure after a settlement? The only excuse you have to impute "everyone" with making the argument is that they can arguably be included under the broad version of the heading "in the Middle East." Otherwise what's the logical difference between making that point about these problems and saying that Russian energy exploration in the Arctic or North Korean nukes also won't be addressed by a settlement? Nothing that I can see. Such is the limitation of a straw man argument that doesn't bother to cite actual instances of the argument it seeks to refute.

 

David Rothkopf is the CEO and Editor-at-Large of Foreign Policy. His new book, "Power, Inc.: The Epic Rivalry Between Big Business and Government and the Reckoning that Lies Ahead" is due out from Farrar, Straus & Giroux on March 1.

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