On Equivalency: Introducing the President of Newton's Third Law of Motion...

Fri, 06/05/2009 - 6:40pm

Among the most hotly debated issues arising from President Obama's speech in Cairo was whether or not he was implying a moral equivalency between the plight of the Palestinians and that faced by the Jews during the Holocaust. He and his team have denied this, but the juxtaposition of ideas in speeches does not occur entirely by accident. Neither does the juxtaposition of stops during presidential trips.

That President Obama went from Cairo to Germany and from a day where the central message was associated with his outreach to the Muslim world to one in which his central message was a commemoration of the Holocaust was purposeful. Frankly, to me it was slightly grotesque. "Ok Jews, if Cairo gave you heartburn here's a little Holocaust for you. Feeling better now?

Further, the message delivered by the president at Buchenwald, was as carefully calculated as all his messages are to resonate different ways with different audiences. Again, the juxtaposition of Buchenwald with Cairo colors how we hear words like:

This place teaches us that we must be ever vigilant about the spread of evil in our times. ... We have to guard against cruelty in ourselves. ...And it is now up to us, the living, in our work, wherever we are, to resist injustice and intolerance and indifference in whatever forms they may take and ensure that those who were lost here did not go in vain."

Palestinians will undoubtedly greet those remarks as affirmations of their cause even as Israelis may greet them as a recognition of the lessons of the Holocaust. It is a deft politician who can use such a blend of language, setting and day-to-day context to deliver potent and seemingly supportive message to two deeply divided groups at the same time. 

Whose evil is he referring to? Whose cruelty? He dances with issues of equivalency but never gets so close as to actually embrace them.

This helps him with his outreach to the Muslim world because he seems to be saying the Israelis are hypocrites and while they have used the Holocaust for years to justify the existence of their state and the often tough tactics they have used in defense of it, perhaps we can now join together in using it against them. And for the Jews he says, I feel your pain. 

Indeed, on this trip, for all the talk of Muslims he has sought to take a page out of the playbook of a popular Christian icon, Santa Claus, offering something for everyone. For Muslims the speech, for Jews Buchenwald, for Palestinians tough talk about Israeli settlements, for Israelis talk of an unbreakable bond with the U.S., for anti-Iranians criticism of Ahmadinejad's Holocaust denial, for Iranians acknowledgement of their "right" to a civilian nuclear program, for the American right attacks against "violent extremists," for the left no use of George Bush's favorite word "terrorism." And so on.

Thus, while the equivalency debate may continue to boil for some time without resolution (because everyone can hear what they want to or what they fear to in his recent statements), it underscores that the message of this trip seems to be that there is no position so divided that the U.S. cannot be on both sides of it, no group pair of enemies so embittered that we cannot offer support to both sides. While I am willing to accept the Administration's assertion that there was no implied equivalency between the actions of the Israelis against the Palestinians and those of the Nazis against the Jews, I am more troubled by the fact that the President or his team somehow think that leadership and diplomacy require that we view all issues as somehow equivalent...that there is no idea that cannot be bartered for another, balanced by a countervailing thought.

Obama on this trip has become President of Newton's Third Law of Motion. For every action, for every word, there is an equal and opposite reaction...and the United States will embrace both. 

While some may hope to see this as the impartiality of the peacemaker, others might reasonably fear that it is the moral vacuity of a politician who seeks to be all things to all people. As my friend Tom Friedman often says, "just because George Bush or Dick Cheney says something doesn't always mean it is not true."  There are absolutes. There are countries with whom we have greater shared interests than others. There are crimes that are worse than other wrongs. To restore American leadership does not mean having everyone like us. We can take stands that are more difficult and controversial than the President's statements today opposing Holocaust denial and genocide. (Though it might be worth exploring whether we are opposed only to genocide during or after the fact or whether we are willing to actually try to stop those who threaten it...as do the Iranians and the leaders of the militant wing of Hamas in their views toward the destruction of Israel. And by the way, by stopping them I don't mean reprimanding them.)

The answer as to whether Obama ultimately lives up to our hopes or our fears come when his actions illustrate whether there are values we are not willing to negotiate, points that can't be balanced, enemies we are willing to oppose, friends we are willing to stand by even when it is unpopular. Tell me the day that Obama is willing to make his first enemy in order to defend a deeply held principle and I will tell you the day he ascends from being a politician to being a statesman.

JENS-ULRICH KOCH/AFP/Getty Images



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This post seems a paranoid to

This post seems way too paranoid to me, expressing outrage at moral equivalency that you implied into the speech and wish to let fester as a resentment while you mock Obama's visit to Buchenwald as not enough. It feels like this feigned outrage will be used as yet another excuse to refuse to sympathize with the Palestinians at the peace table. This intransigent attitude adds to the perception that the Holocaust is being abused as an all-purpose excuse to deflect responsibility for any of Israel's actions and to engage in aggressive war and other crimes. This further drags down Israel's image in the US and the world as an intransigent and unreasonable nation-state. It saddens me but it also tests my patience. And I am not alone.

no it isn't paranoid. It

no it isn't paranoid. It comes from someone who can understand what "equivalency" connotes. I'd say everyone else, slobbering on Obama-Kool-Aid, has had their critical thinking turned off.

I really encourage...

I really encourage all readers of this column to read the postings a little more carefully. Not because there is anything so special in the column. But it almost certainly will reduce the number of aggravating responses like the one preceding. First, no paranoia here. That implies a fear of something. Regarding the moral equivalency in the speech, I didn't imply it, others did...I even dismissed it later in the post. I was getting to a different kind of equivalency...the sense that everything could be balanced with some other thing to keep everyone as happy as possible with us. I certainly did not mock the visit to Buchenwald. I questioned its timing and the motives of the spin doctors who cooked up the schedule. As for the Palestinians...huh? What are you saying? Because I am Jewish that somehow my opinion influences the process of the Mideast peace talks? I wish you were right. But the outcome would be different because I am an all two-state solution, stop the settlements, negotiate now kind of guy. Wonder why you jumped to another conclusion? As for the abuse of the Holocaust...my concern is precisely yours. I don't think it should be abused...or used...by anyone. Israel's actions are, however, not justified by the Holocaust. They are justified by the legitimate right to self-defense that any country surrounded by those who deny their right to exist would consider a priority. As for you being saddened and your patience being tested, surely that's a sign of something but I am not sure what. Given your tendency to misread, distort, impute motives that don't exist, etc...does this mean Israel is alientating the intellectually careless and biased? I don't minimize that, it's a big audience. But I'm not sure it's one I seek out for this blog.

Paragraphs, David. I am more

Paragraphs, David.

I am more troubled by the fact that the President or his team somehow think that leadership and diplomacy require that we view all issues as somehow equivalent...that there is no idea that cannot be bartered for another, balanced by a countervailing thought.

It's something we see with Obama on the domestic level here in the US as well. I attribute it to his relative lack of political "roots" on the national level - he doesn't have an established power base aside from the institutional prerogatives of the Presidency and what he built up in the 2008 campaign to "balance" himself off if he needs to go sharply critical and one-sided, so he tries to make up for it with lots of consensus.

Tit for Tat

I admit that saying I thought the post was paranoid was intellectually careless and not well-considered. For that, I apologize.

As for the justification for Israel's actions being based on a "legitimate right to self-defense by those who would deny their right to exist," it is my understanding that this justification will be coming under more thorough examination within the framework of international law and that the US may be reexamining its policy of automatic tacit approval of all of Israel's military maneuvers based on an absolute claim of self-defense, especially after the actions in Lebanon in 2006 and Gaza in 2008. For myself, this is when I started examining Israel's claims in depth (dragging out the old international law degree as it were).

Before I leave your blog, I just want to express my concern about why any questions as to Israel's actions results in a torrent of abuse and denigration as to the intellectual bona fides and bias of the questioner.

on misreadings

David, I won't address the substance of your response to Dalybean, which--although he's sloppy in implying that you, personally, will use "this" as an "excuse" rather than making clear that your line of reasoning here (whether you take credit for it or not) leaves itself open to exploitation by those who may want to perfunctorily bash Palestinians (that seems like a misreading of Dailybean on your part, and a dangerous one, willful or otherwise)--is as speculative your article itself. But for you to address one of your interlocutors as "intellectually careless and biased" because their phrasing haste caused you to read their message in a particular way is inexcusably rude.

You have an extraordinarily narrow reading of his comment--one that is easily as "intellectually careless and biased" as you think the comment itself is. You have an intellectual duty to seek out what appears to be what your discussant thinks he means, rather than taking him to mean whatever you wish and replying to that. Otherwise you're arguing with phantoms and strawmen. You didn't do your work here; you didn't think it through. But you won't be implying that you should leave your blog, as you implied Dalybean should, will you? Of course not. And of course you shouldn't. Your reading of the comment is one among many, and by no means the most likely. But people misread all the time.

If, however, I misread Dalybean--if he did mean to imply that you, David Rothkopf, are in some way stockpiling anti-Jew grievances to pull out "at the peace table" "against" Palestinians--then I join you in your marked disapproval. That's just plain dumb. But that doesn't appear, after careful scrutiny, to be what Dalybean said.

I almost remember some

I almost remember some russian short story we had to read in high school. Checkhov maybe? This guy at a party accidentally said something that might be taken the wrong way, and he worried that people would spread bad rumors about him for it. So he went around to everybody at the party denying it. And the next day he found out that everybody had heard the rumor, and he wondered what enemy had been spreading it....

Here's this equivalence allegation that Obama etc deny that they implied, and all these zionists are busy denying it. Who's putting that idea in people's heads? Who's giving it a great big platform?

If the shoe doesn't fit, don't wear it. But if the shoe does almost fit, but it doesn't quite feel comfortable to wear it, don't argue about whether it fits -- just don't wear it still.

I don't disagree with your

I don't disagree with your main point here, but I remember something like half my professors in college and law school speaking like this. You could call it a form of over-intellecualizing, and it's possibly a symptom of never having had to make hard choices in the 'real' world (i.e., outside academia or the type of government service where one has the option of voting present). These types are fun to argue with, but it's hard to imagine them actually being in charge of anything.

I don't really have a problem with Obama's foreign policy, so far; it's his economic policies that I think are dreadful. And it's ironic: Here you have this epitome of 21st-Century man, and he's adopting 1970s-style economics. Where's the private innovation and daring risk-taking that are the mark of this era? I bet some of those Silicon Valley millionaires that supported him are having second thoughts about now.

I AGREE 100 PERCENT WITH YOU DAVID

David, thank you for another great post.

I think as Jews, we have an advantage over people. We have a perspective on history in a moral context. This is the value we bring to America, as America's Jews.

Of course, we are not the only ones - many immigrants, and many American's with years of service to this country, have a similar experience. But I'd still say, that the Torah is above all a Moral journey, and so there is no shame in admitting, that we are more sensitive to a moral history, than others can possibly be, unless they themselves maintain some continuity in their moral system (maybe Parsis, or Bahais, or Armenians).

Obama made a big mistake, going to Dresden on the same day as Buchenwald. He is a poor speaker when not with a teleprompters, and I don't like Elie Wiesel. Finkelstein called him a clown of the Holocaust circuit, and he had a point.

The point is that you get Obama and Wiesel in Buchenwald, adn it is a circus - and a bad one at that. Obama is clueless on European History - he's never had the slightest interest in his entire life. He has never felt any empathy or anything personal. In fact his biography shows sympathy to extreme bigots, with histories of anti-semitism.

What we know about Hussein - since we can now call him that with his royal approval - is that the man who liberated a part of the Buchenwald complex was himself rather surprised to hear Obama mention him in a speech (remember the "my uncle liberated Auschwitz).

Now this uncle was surprised, because he had never met Obama in person, and because he had never heard of any interest in his life from Obama.

I'd guess he was also surprised, because Obama clearly didn't have a clue where Auschwitz is, and what Army had actually liberated it, and what part of Europe our army liberated. You understand me David?

The point here - Obama tries to be everythign to everyone - and that's not leadership, that's clowning around. That's why he poses with Wiesel, and then goes to Dresden, lights a candel, adn mentions the victims of an air-raid.

THis man marks the end of our culture as we know it. He has trivialised everythign beyond a point of no return. What he is doing, was previously unthinkable. There would have been limits on how much you could play the game. People had solid identities, and they wouldn't let you cross the lines. The veterans, the dignitaries, the FSA people.

Now its all in his hands, because a whole establishemtn has been swept away. With it comes the stupidity and inexperience, of Obama.

The record of this man is clear - he is a divider. Under the pretense of unity, he uses his ignorance to knit together some disconnected paliative verbiage, and instead of unifying us, divides us further. This was clear in the acrimony of the Democratic primary, it was clear with McCain, and the polarisation of the vote, and it is clear with his brainless idae to speak to the Islamic world.

In this one speech - he has implicitly acknowledge that America is
1) dealing not with Iraq and Afghanistan and terrorism but
2) with Islam
3) hence Islam is a problem (implicitly)
4) and America's treatment of Islam, is the problem (implicitly) .

Obama and Mr. Axelrod think they are smart, when they term "contingency operations" instaed of "war on terror" and when they speak from Stanbul and Cairo - instead, they have now taken the battle from the marginal extremists to the core of the Muslim world.

This is divisive, it is an admission of civilisational divide, and knowing how Obama bowed to Abudalh - we know, with three mentions of the Hijab in his speech, and no mention of political rights for women, and cultural rights, and social rights, where this man stands.

not on our sides.

So in a way, he isn't a moral equivalentist - he is using equivalence, to downplay our culture and civilsiation, and bring it down to the level of the Saudis.

He isn't on our side, and he doesnt' represent my nation.

Obama had a line "point six

Obama had a line "point six women's rights"

in which he only mentioned womens' right to an education.

news for the ignorant. The Muslim world doesn't have a problem educating women. Dubai, Kuwait, Syria, half the students in the university are women.

Obama knows this.

The Muslim world loves to reduce women's rights to education - because the West is too cowardly to discuss any other womens rights.

That's why I said "political, social, and cutlural".

Because the issue isn't if a woman can study in an Islamic country - the issue is - when will we see pictures from an Islamic country, where women AND men are sitting in the SAME cafe?

That's all I want to see.

And you can't see it. That's what you wont see. You'll see that 55 percent of the students in Syria in a unviersity are girls - and that's it. If you want to travel from your village after you get the degree - not without an elderly male's permission!!!

Furthemore, its idiotic to focus on education, knowing that the problem faced by women in the labor force, is the same as men - unemployment rates are colossal, and employment opportunities are rare - women end up marrying and living off of men. The culture itself builds barriers to these women, when the are competing with men.

It's a painful, and massive charade.

____

As for Weisel and the Holocaust Circus.

All these clows pay lip-service to the Holocaust. Wiesel made a fortune off it, so he should be ashamed. A double shame - for surviving, and then cashing in on those who perished. For if they hadn't perished, his whole shtick wouldn't sell. So he cashes in on their suffering. He is a cretin.

Norman Finkelstein is a Kook on supporting Hezbollah - but he nailed it in the Holocaust industry. There is a gang of crooks, who has abused the Holocaust to line their pockets, and Weisel is one of them. He is a poor reductionist, who cannot be compared to Primo Levi.

Those who respect the Holocaust read Levi, those who use it to show of and score moral points, use Weisel.

One is a showman, the former is a profound witness.

Finkelstein is thus a hero of great proportion - but he should shut up about Hezbollah, and get over his hatred for Israel. Then again, I am sure that Dershovitz - another decrepid moron - without an honest bone in his body - doesn't help when getting Finkelstein fired. If the biggest verbal garbage man Israel has in America, goes after another Jew for exposing the workigns of the Shakedown of Switzerland (it was absolute legal theft!!!) then maybe Finkelstein's turning against Israel, made some sense.

I still think he is wrong on Hezbollah - and he is clueless on the legitimacy of our claim to Eretz Yisroel.

But that's another story , and another time. Maybe Grand Senor is reading this, and he can comment - since he seems to think all Jews are narrow-minded Israel obsessed creatures ready to rubber stamp everything and every single thing Likud and AIPAC pronounce.

No - you can be a Zionsit, love Israel, and still read Benny Morris, Ilan Pappe, and even Norman Finkelstein.

It doesn't mean you don't read your Primo Levi, and your Raul Hilberg, and the Torah, and undestand the need to defend Israel's sovereignty, because it is a FAIT ACCOMPLI!

Because the issue isn't if a

Because the issue isn't if a woman can study in an Islamic country - the issue is - when will we see pictures from an Islamic country, where women AND men are sitting in the SAME cafe?

That's all I want to see.

I strongly doubt this is all you want to see.

I think you took one point that looked strong to you and ran with it, and that it isn't particularly central to you.

no it is central to me. Go

no it is central to me. Go through any comments I make on the Middle East, and see if it's not central.

I guarantee you - find me a picture of a cafe, anywhere in the Muslim world, except Beirut or in Christian neighbourhoods, where women and men sit as in a Parisian or New York cafe.

It's case closed. Bada-bing. You can't deny it, you can't spin it, you can only pretend it doesn't exist. Head in the sand.

AllanGreen, I realised that I

AllanGreen, I realised that I was accusing you of bad faith. I thought you were more interested in discrediting enemies of israel than you were in civil rights for arab women.

But in reality it doesn't matter. You have the right to take any stand you want, whether it's something you really believe or care about or not. It's silly of me to argue with you about what you really care about. Motives can't be particularly transparent. So for example you argue that you have presented this line consistently, which could be argued only shows you've follows a consistent rhetorical strategy. On the other side, suppose you had only taken up this moral stand recently -- would that be evidence that it wasn't heartfelt?

It's just totally silly to argue about what you really want. You can take whatever stand you want to and I'll try to deal with it on its merits.

So, should we give muslim women political refugee status and let them come to the USA any time they want to leave their families and can get here? What else should we do to help out women who're victims of patriarchal cultures? I don't right off see that economic sanctions or bombing runs would actually help women much, nor would any sort of aid to israel be any assistance at all to muslim women.

Can I admit something at this

Can I admit something at this juncture?

I don't really care about the plight of women in the Muslim world. I mean, it would be nice if they had all the rights of Western women, but I just don't know what we're supposed to do about it. We decided awhile back we didn't want to be a colonial power (despite what Obama seems to think), and so we're not going to be like the British and be able to directly impose our values; so, any influence is going to have to be indirect.

I do think we're superior because of the rights of women in our society, but so what?

Both these notions seem to be out of step with current elitist thinking, where we're supposed to be both internationalists and non-judgmental. But, for me, US foreign policy should be about what's in the US's interests. And in that part of the world it's mostly about securing our energy supply.

And I get the neocon argument that democracy and women's rights and all that around the world would eventually make us all safer. I'll even buy that argument; but getting there could be so potentially bloody that it seems reckless. What can I say? I voted for Ron Paul. I guess I'm a troglodyte and should go hide under a rock or something.

I would agree - if we had a

I would agree - if we had a choice.

We don't.

Women's rights anywhere in the world, cannot be ignored.

That's the burden of Democracy.

I think your position is

I think your position is intellectually a bit extreme. There is only so much rhetoric people can puff-up. I think most people are sincere, and you can read it in the way they approach a subject. I mean "extreme" because it reduces a human phenomenon to one of pure rhetoric. I don't believe in all powerful rhetoric.

Beyond motivations, there are constraints, and options. Womens rights in the middle east are an issue of massive proportions. No less important than the Slave trade was in the 19th century. This isn't about concern, nor motivations, this is about liberties, and development.

While you would no doubt argue against "racism" and take anyone complaining of it very very very seriously, if you had the slightest knowledge of the actual plight of women in the Islamic world, you would treat this issue with the same serious, sobre, and hyper-important manner, in which you treat "racism" in America.

Womens rights in the middle

Womens rights in the middle east are an issue of massive proportions. No less important than the Slave trade was in the 19th century.

OK, what do you propose we do about this massive issue?

In the 19th century the US appreoach to slavery was the Civil War. I think we might have done better. For a start, better financial structures in the south would have allowed more wage-slavery.

The civil war tore up a lot of stuff and killed a lot of people, but it did not persuade southern whites to treat southern blacks decently. That's an ongoing argument. When the yankees pulled out their occupation troops that were failing to stop the terrorism, we got 80+ years of Jim Crow.

So would you advocate that we should invade and occupy the middle east to improve women's rights? How do you think of our trial runs at that?

Well, maybe just airstrikes? Nu, so if we do enough airstrikes that will convince arabs to respect women?

OK, sanctions. The harder we make it for women to feed their children the more their men will respect them, surely.

Maybe we could make speeches at the UN stressing how much we disrespect them because they don't treat their women with respect? After the meetings our ambassador could take their ambassadors to a strip bar to show them how thoroughly we respect women's rights. That ought to do it.

Well, here's what did it for us. We got an economy with lots and lots of jobs, but the pay kept going down. So pretty soon middle-class families felt like they needed two incomes, and the businesses wanted to hire lots of educated women cheap, and quickly the laws changed to get out of the way of that. Women who had their own paychecks could do what they wanted with them if it came to the crunch, so they had rights. And the laws changed more to match that.

Get that happening in muslim countries and in less than 20 years their women will have the legal right to work in strip bars pretty much like here.

if you had the slightest knowledge of the actual plight of women in the Islamic world, you would treat this issue with the same serious, sobre, and hyper-important manner, in which you treat "racism" in America.

You think? I think we've done pretty well with the dangers of patriarchalism in utah. The mormons let us annex them into the USA, and so we gradually started tightening the screws. They agreed to clamp down on their own polygyny. They agreed to let women work outside the home. They agreed that women can go anywhere in the country and get divorces and live their own lives, if that's what the women choose. They still *act* like women have no rights, but women actually do. Because utah is a US state subject to US laws, and they chose not to fight. So maybe the better approach is to get muslim nations to agree to become part of the USA, and then we can treat it as an internal problem.

Do you have a suggestion for what we should do about this issue of massive proportions? Apart from support israel for not being part of the womens' rights issue?

Do you have a suggestion for

Do you have a suggestion for what we should do about this issue of massive proportions?

Echo answers mournfully?

Do you have a suggestion for

Do you have a suggestion for what we should do about this issue of massive proportions?

This fits into my thought that you were being insincere, AllanGreen.

Here's this issue of massive proportions, and what action should we take? All I see that you want to do about it is to express intense disapproval for israel's enemies. What does that do for the theoretically-oppressed muslim women? Absolutely nothing. It only helps israel.

So I hypothesised that maybe what you care about is helping israel and not muslim women.

It was an uncharitable thought that still appears to fit all the available evidence.

Good for David for spelling out these concerns

The other day about this:

Which is just one more reason why today's speech, for all the merits clearly underlying its conception and evident in its execution, made me uneasy.

I wondered what other reasons beyond a breach of his rather precious standard of separation of faith and state for the president of the United States while abroad might be the cause of David's unease.

I would be remiss not to slaute David's accountability in making them explicit here. I still wonder at the reasons, but now differently.

Folks...

Folks,
What's with all the stuff about me being hyper-sensitive about Israel? My views on Israel, cited in the piece, are not those of the current Israeli Administration, and dovetail with those of the majority of the "realist" community. I have no hesitation about criticizing Israel and have not criticized for a moment Obama for taking a tougher stance on settlements, for example, which I think is totally justified by U.S. interests. This piece is not about Jewish issues either. I don't like the triangulations involved in identity politics. I don't like the idea that all things are equal enough to be balanced out as they were in the President's speech and regional policies. I also, per my earlier post, strongly advocate a separation between church and state. It's one reason why my family...despite having almost three dozen members killed in the Holocaust...came to the United States rather than Israel. And I don't much like bias or the imputation of bias that does not exist. Let's differ on our opinions...let's have a civil exchange on that. The only times you will see me get sharp with people in these responses is when I sense that bias or recklessness or something else we could do without is driving the response.

The only times you will see

The only times you will see me get sharp with people in these responses is when I sense that bias or recklessness or something else we could do without is driving the response.

After seeing the general tenor of the comments here over the past couple days, I revise my "inexcusably rude" down to excusably rude. (I hadn't reviewed any comments here prior to posting a couple days ago, naively assuming that the norm would be to keep it civil and sincere.) Wow.

What's with all the stuff

What's with all the stuff about me being hyper-sensitive about Israel?

I wondered about that. But then I realised it's just the culture. I'm sure you're a lot less hypersensitive about israel than most of your peers, and so you probably feel like you aren't hypersensitive at all.

Simply put, people read into

Simply put, people read into things. You are critical of Walt's theories and methods about "the Lobby" (remember, Walt is impugning motives and tactics to fellow Americans), therefore you must be hypersensitive about Israel.

David

Is this honestly about my response, or is it a general caution? Because while I certainly have written things I would expect you to react to in the past, I don't see how what I have written here can be described as you do.

sensitive

Your dreadful post a few months smearing Walt (“Why Freeman himself was wrong about what his defeat signified”) proved how hypersensitive about Israel you are.

Yup.

That's the one that's got me all filled with "bias, recklessness [and] something else."

Disagree

Here, I must disagree with you and the pundits.

I felt that the Holocaust issue is one the Arab world needed addressed in this way. As a Westerner, married into this culture, I have many times had to have the "Holocaust is not a hoax" argument. Despite remaining very pro-Palestinian, and how can I not be when this is half of my children's heritage, I still have little tolerance for such arguments, even from educated peoples.

Like it or not, the Holocaust and injustices like it are the reason the UN favored the creation of the Israeli state. It is the reason that non-Jews still see as the reason it is needed as a mantel of protections for Jews. And, because of this, it is a sticking point in the Arab world discussions. It culminates in everything from the Holocaust was a hoax to we did not do it so the West should have had to pay the price. I see his comments as saying "'eib" or shame, you should know better. You cannot only look at your suffering, but at others suffering as well. I know by experience, "'eib" and "harram" works wonders on this argument, probably because the position is born of anger, not conscience.

It seems by the punditry, that maybe the Arabs were not the only ones that need a reminder, and someone shaking their finger saying 'eib.